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Is Democracy Overrated?

Re: Re: Re: Is Democracy Overrated?

a_unique_person said:


They just get elected president



Lee-Kwan Yu a welfare loving leftist? That's the funniest joke I've heard in a long time.
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Excellent!

Two fallacies in one post, an Ad Hominem and a Straw Man!

Impressive! Keep up your usual good work... :rolleyes:
 
Re: Re: Re: Is Democracy Overrated?

Kimpatsu said:

If you think Singapore is left-wing, you're mental.
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I didn't say that, either.

I opined that welfare-loving leftists would prefer a "benevolent democracy" modeled after Singapore.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Democracy Overrated?

a_unique_person said:


I think your's is called an argument from ignorance.
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It was an opinion, not an argument.

An argument consists of premises and a conclusion.
 
Graham said:


Non-attendence at the polling station is more likely to be interpreted as laziness/apathy, IMO.

Like it or not, the system in place is the system in place. You won't change it by not participating - you only exclude yourself.

If you do not approve of the current system, the appropriate action is to:

(a) vote for (or stand as) a candidate whose platform is to reform the system

(b) spoil your vote in an appropraite manner

What do you think of that?

Graham
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When you're all quite finished bickering . . .

Anyone care to comment on the above?

Graham
 
Graham said:
Anyone care to comment on the above?
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I don't care how non-attendence is interpreted. Those who want to vote can, and those who do not want to don't have to.

I fully support a person's right to choose whether or not to exclude themselves from the voting process. I guess for some, choice is only for pregnant mothers...
 
Kodiak said:
I don't care how non-attendence is interpreted. Those who want to vote can, and those who do not want to don't have to.
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Do you believe that society comes only with rights and entirely without obligations?




I fully support a person's right to choose whether or not to exclude themselves from the voting process. I guess for some, choice is only for pregnant mothers...
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Yeah . . . good answer . . . reee-al mature :rolleyes:
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Democracy Overrated?

Kodiak said:


I didn't say that, either.

I opined that welfare-loving leftists would prefer a "benevolent democracy" modeled after Singapore.
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I don't follow your reasoning. Please explain.
 
Originally posted by Kimpatsu

So the working class, who are struggling to feed their families thanks to inequitable tax cuts and who have no health insurance still vote Republican because they have dreams of one day working their way up the social ladder, and won't want to be paying hefty taxes when they do. Of course, the chance of them actually fulfilling this dream is about as good as my winning the lottery, but that's the whole point: Americans chase their dreams, not practical, boring old reality.
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I think this is crazy...but true. It happens here as well, people are sold a vision of society which doesn't match their reality, and preferring to live in their aspirations, they can end up voting against their own interests. Such people cut their own throats. It's fine to have dreams, but we shouldn't let them obscure "practical, boring reality". I also think that the public are encouraged to have dreams and aspirations which are too selfish, too consumerist and too scewed toward individual privilege.

Voting isn't a responsibility, it's a right

It's both.

People won't take any more interest in an issue if compelled to vote than if not; their heads will simply be full of resentment at being coerced when they go to the polling booth.

That hasn't been the experience here. Most people in Australia don't resent compulsory voting, any grumbling is minimal...they accept it as necessary for a truly representative democracy. It's only a problem for those who would benefit from public apathy.

I'm disillusioned with voting because there are no candidates who represent my views and--and this is crucial--whom I can trust to implement the policies as promised...

Tell me about it. Democracy is flawed, but I can't conceive of a better system. I agree we need to constantly improve the software...the better educated and healthier[pychologically and physically] the general population is the better and healthier the democracy will be. That way there will be a wider pool from which to pluck our politicians and a better educated people will demand better government.

That's a good reason to vote for those parties who consider such things as a good standard of health and education a necessity for all people, not just those who can afford it.
 
Given the nature of common wisdom and common sense, I am rather glad to live in a representative democracy!

Something about the tyranny of the mob, it is why we have a roating set of representatives too.

I am sure better systems could be devised, but our works fairly well. A local electorate gets to chose thier representative.

I don't like the idea of compulsory voting, ewh, I am not sure that I would want the uninformed and apathetic ti give thier moo cow support to the cause du'jour, another reason I think term limits are silly.
 
If I do not want to show up to vote I should not have to, if I do not want to vote for any candidate or anything else on the ballot I should not have to. Forcing someone to vote is not going to make people think about the issues, you will more likely have people randomly picking whatever. If someone is not interested in voting or politics, forcing them to vote is not going to get them interested. I remember our last state elections, I only voted on the laws. I did not vote for a governor because I did not like any candidate and I did not vote for any of the judges and other government officials because I had never heard of any of them. Not everyone has the time or the interest to keep up with every detail of every election, it makes no sense to force people to vote.
 
Question

Question:

Is Australia a compulsive-voting country? What are the penalties for not voting?
 
Kimpatsu said:
Much is made of the fact that more people live under democracy than under tyranny for the first time in history. A quick glance around, however, demonstrates that most people, are want of a better term, just too dumb to exercise their votes wisely. I don't mena in the partisan sense (e.g., "those who don't vote Tory/Republican/Gaullist must be stupid"), but from the perspective that the majority are so woefully uninformed or misinformed, they can't possibly exercise their vote sensibly. A modern example is that the majority of Americans mistakenly believe that Saddam Hussain had something to do with September 11th. Boiled down, if six out of 10 voters are stupid, you'll get a stupid result. So why do we tolerate such an obviously flawed system? Wouldn't a benevolent democracy modelled on Singapore be a better option? After all, what people really care about is material comfort, isn't it? So long as they have their 200 cable channels, widescreen TV, Cher concerts and multiplexes with armrest cup holders for their beer or other poison of choice, they don't really care what a country's leaders get up to in their name, do they? Well, do they?
Your opinions, please.
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People are taught to care primarily abotu material comfort in our "democratic" "capitalist" societies. That's certinaly not true of all societies and does not have to be true at all. Encouraging the American mindset is part of the system of serving the State.
 
Re: Re: Is Democracy Overrated?

Malachi151 said:


People are taught to care primarily abotu material comfort in our "democratic" "capitalist" societies. That's certinaly not true of all societies and does not have to be true at all. Encouraging the American mindset is part of the system of serving the State.
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There's nothing actually wrong with wanting material comfort. Not much wrong with wanting it for yourself and certainly nothing wrong with wanting it for others.

If everyone in the world restricted their wants and desires to simple things like a nice place to live and good food to eat, the world would be a better place.

That's a lesson you would do well to learn, my revolutionary friend but sadly I don't think you ever will.

Graham
 
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