Is Communism Synonymous With Atheism?

[fls]

I didn't grow up in the US so I don't have first hand experience with this, but weren't US school kids taught to hate Communists because they were godless? Maybe that's the reason for the confusion? Or have I fallen victim to an urban myth?

Linda

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

I didn't grow up in the US so I don't have first hand experience with this, but weren't US school kids taught to hate Communists because they were godless? Maybe that's the reason for the confusion? Or have I fallen victim to an urban myth?

Linda

Not all school kids were/are taught this. However yes, it is a common belief in the US.

 

[epix]

In his/her incomprehensibly titled "Atheism in the Wheelchair Made in USA" thread, epix made the claim that "Communism and atheism are effective synonyms", even implying that atheists who state that they are not communist (or Communist - I'm not sure the distinction is clear to epix) are lying due to fear of societal repercussions.

So... If you are an atheist, are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party (or just a generic communist)?

What are you trying to prove here with your silly poll? Why don't you publish the poll taken in former communist countries? There hasn't been a stronger correlation found in any social study than the one between party membership and atheism.

Your arguments equal those of a 13th century monk.

 

[qayak]

What are you trying to prove here with your silly poll? Why don't you publish the poll taken in former communist countries? There hasn't been a stronger correlation found in any social study than the one between party membership and atheism.

In 1990, a poll was taken at the funeral of Mr. J. Henson. When asked about their religious beliefs more than 87% stated it as "atheist." When asked about their political affiliation, that same 87% responded

"We're Muppets you fool, we can't vote!"

 

[Foster Zygote]

What are you trying to prove here with your silly poll?

I am demonstrating that you are wrong when you claim that communism and atheism are effective synonyms. If you were correct the above poll should be weighted heavily toward atheist/communist. Instead it is weighted heavily toward atheist/non-communist. As I type this the results are 30 responding as non-communist and 1 responding as communist.

Why don't you publish the poll taken in former communist countries? There hasn't been a stronger correlation found in any social study than the one between party membership and atheism.

How is that a valid indication that all atheists are communists? In a poll sampling people from former Communist (note the upper case 'C') countries in which atheism was officially maintained as a part of Party policy, one would expect that those holding on to their party identity would retain that feature of said identity. Claiming that this highly biased sample is universally representative of atheists is like conducting a survey in Vatican City and then claiming that it indicated that all Christians are Catholic.

Your arguments equal those of a 13th century monk.

Might you explain exactly how?

 

[Piscivore]

Your arguments equal those of a 13th century monk.

Might you explain exactly how?

Those are the only one with which he is familiar.

 

[PixyMisa]

What are you trying to prove here with your silly poll? Why don't you publish the poll taken in former communist countries? There hasn't been a stronger correlation found in any social study than the one between party membership and atheism.

Your arguments equal those of a 13th century monk.

Communism doesn't work, so communist states commonly suppress all other power structures to postpone outright failure. That includes religion, of course. That's where the correlation arises.

The existence of large numbers of religious communists and irreligious non-communists falsifies your hypothesis.

The end.

 

[Darth Rotor]

In his/her incomprehensibly titled "Atheism in the Wheelchair Made in USA" thread, epix made the claim that "Communism and atheism are effective synonyms", even implying that atheists who state that they are not communist (or Communist - I'm not sure the distinction is clear to epix) are lying due to fear of societal repercussions.

So... If you are an atheist, are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party (or just a generic communist)?

By definition, Yes.

The roots of communism are in the French revolution, and its doctrines reject explicitly God and belief in God.

You could nitpick and argue that agnosticism is an option, which is fair enough.

I voted planet X, as your two choices left me no other choice.

 

[epix]

How is that a valid indication that all atheists are communists? In a poll sampling people from former Communist (note the upper case 'C') countries in which atheism was officially maintained as a part of Party policy, one would expect that those holding on to their party identity would retain that feature of said identity. Claiming that this highly biased sample is universally representative of atheists is like conducting a survey in Vatican City and then claiming that it indicated that all Christians are Catholic.

You can as well recite from the Book of Ezekiel. . .

You twist stuff around again the way communist/atheist propaganda used to. I never said that all atheists are communists. All I said is that atheism is a synonym to communism. If you suspect that there is a relationship between atheism and communism given the fact that the doctrine-makers Marx and Lenin were atheist, and you conduct the poll in communist countries, then the conclusion is pretty clear. Btw, ways and means don't deny existence. (Didn't Eichmann receive orders to take care of the Jews from Hitler? He was forced, of course. But your defense didn't do much for him. He got a rope.)

Atheism in the communist countries was an active pseudo religion that chased theists around. Since the Founding Fathers were not atheists, you can only twist around things that other people said -- just do a tiny fraction of the evil that the commies did.

Atheism can't serve as a vehicle for social changes any more, so it's very unlikely that it would ideologically support some crappy political systems once again.

 

[Weak Kitten]

I never said that all atheists are communists. All I said is that atheism is a synonym to communism.

Um, unless the meaning of "synonym" has changed since I last looked then you are saying that all atheists are communists. "Synonym" means that the two things are the same, they are synonymous.

Um, and my husband just pointed out to me that the early Christian church would have been very pleased with much of the communist ideals. After all, many early Christian groups lived in what were essentially communes.

 

[timhau]

I never said that all atheists are communists. All I said is that atheism is a synonym to communism.

If you use three-syllable words, you might want to check their meaning first.

 

[autumn1971]

Wasn't Sandanista-stlye Communism as attempted in Nicaragua very Roman Catholic?

 

[neutrino_cannon]

Wasn't Sandanista-stlye Communism as attempted in Nicaragua very Roman Catholic?

Sorta kinda. It's not like the Catholic Church had a vested interest in spreading Communism; these were the day of John Paul II after all. My understanding is that there were individual clergy who were sympathetic to the idea though.

There were many, many Christian utopian communes prior to Marxist Communism proper like the Onieda Community.

 

[timhau]

Wasn't Sandanista-stlye Communism as attempted in Nicaragua very Roman Catholic?

I think pretty much everything in Nicaragua is very Roman Catholic.

 

[Travis]

I believe most vocal anarcho-capitalists are atheists. Many followers of Ayn Rand, a thoroughly anti-communist thinker, were atheists, as was Rand herself.
And, as has been noted, many prominent Christian thinkers, especially Catholics, have been communists. Heck, the distributist movement is essentially Catholic communism.
There exist atheists that are not communists and theists that are communists. Hence, one's status as a communist does not imply one's status as an athiest.

Well said.

Epix pay attention.

 

[Ladewig]

You twist stuff around again the way communist/atheist propaganda used to. I never said that all atheists are communists. All I said is that atheism is a synonym to communism.

Here you call them synonyms.

If you suspect that there is a relationship between atheism and communism given the fact that the doctrine-makers Marx and Lenin were atheist, and you conduct the poll in communist countries, then the conclusion is pretty clear.

Here you offer as evidence of your claim that all communists are atheists.

You have made a logical error. Even if all communists are atheists (which as other posters have mentioned is not true) that does not mean all atheists are communists. Let me offer an example of this type of error. All followers of Marxism lived in 19th, 20th, or 21st centuries. From that claim we cannot say everyone who lived in the 19th, 20th or 21st centuries is a follower of Marxism. The two things are not synonymous in the least.

Btw, ways and means don't deny existence. (Didn't Eichmann receive orders to take care of the Jews from Hitler? He was forced, of course. But your defense didn't do much for him. He got a rope.)

What are you talking about?!

Atheism in the communist countries was an active pseudo religion that chased theists around.

Again, even if that were true - that does not make the two things synonymous in any way. All that would mean is that Communism is a SUBSET of atheism - not that atheism equals Communism. Do you see the difference?

Since the Founding Fathers were not atheists, you can only twist around things that other people said -- just do a tiny fraction of the evil that the commies did.

Again, you have made a logical error. This one is called non-sequitur. The three things you mentioned are not related to each other in any way.

Atheism can't serve as a vehicle for social changes any more, so it's very unlikely that it would ideologically support some crappy political systems once again.

What?

 

[PixyMisa]

You twist stuff around again the way communist/atheist propaganda used to. I never said that all atheists are communists. All I said is that atheism is a synonym to communism.

Which is absurd beyond all human comprehension.

Atheism is a position on belief in a class of supernatural entities.

Communism is a failed system of political economy.

 

[HansMustermann]

I never said that all atheists are communists. All I said is that atheism is a synonym to communism.

This is the silliest thing I've seen online since the Hello Kitty tampons

Do you know what synonym means? It means there is a meaning of both that is the same or nearly the same.

So, yes, if you claim they're synonyms, by _definition_ it's claiming that all atheists are communists. And that all communists are atheists too. That's what synonym means.

Same as pail is a synonym for bucket. Yes, that mean implicitly that all buckets are pails, and viceversa.

 

[westprog]

One of the most tedious discussions I've had on JREF was about non-atheistic communists.

However, Marxist communism - communism as it is mostly understood - is an explicitly atheistic ideology. It might be possible to not be an atheist and to be a communist, but not without losing some detail along the way.

Of course, this does not imply that all atheists are communists. That would be logical fallacy #1.

 

[HansMustermann]

Maybe, but synonym means equality. You know, inclusion in both directions, not just set A includes set C.

Plus, in practice it varied greatly. Even if you can convince someone that there's more benefit in working together instead of working against each other, it doesn't mean they'll automatically shake all superstitions and start thinking logically. Basically just like the famous Dorothy Parker quote: "You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think."