Is Castro Already Dead?

[hgc]

I don't see that it makes much difference whether he is dead already. It seems fairly certain that he will be dead soon, afterall.

I really wonder what will happen in Cuba when this fact can no longer be denied.

Indeed it will. There is a strain of "Miami Cubans," I suppose, who think they'll have a place in the new Cuban power structure. But I can't imagine that if they don't live there they'll have any significant impact. But there are also lots of emigrant, and probably lots of resident, Cubans who have deeds to property that was appropriated by the state, some of whom I know myself. Will the post-Castro Cuba in any way redistribute property back to these dispossessed owners?

 

[Architect]

No - the UK NHS is based on the idea of "free at the point of delivery".

Just to be quite clear here, since our American friend seems a bit confused:

1. Everyone who works pays national insurance contributions in addition to income tax; this runs between 7 and 10% of salary, but there is a lower limit below which no payments are required.

2. In return we get free healthcare, disability benefit, unemployment benefit, income support, maternity and paternity pay, statutory sick pay, the state pension, and the other aspects of the welfare state. In Scotland residential care of the elderly is also free, as are eyesight tests and some other additional areas.

3. For the avoidance of doubt, all medical treatment is entirely free (with the exception of some out patient prescriptions).

4. There are no excesses. There is no risk that people without insurance will not receive full treatment. There are no insurers arguing about whether treatment is or is not necessary, or whether it is covered under the policy. There are no exclusions for pre-existing conditions.

5. In all fairness, there are waiting lists for some - principally elective and non essential - treatments but normal medical treatment is pretty much immediate.

I speak from experience, having knackered my knee on 9th December, had an arthroscopy on the 16th, then been readmitted with a potential clot (it was only double pneumonia). I've now been offered a further arthroscopic synovectomy as soon as I recover from the pneumonia, probably in mid March.

6. The French have an even better, broadly similar system although they pay a bit more by way of national insurance premiums (and consequently have a commensurately better system).

The major philosophical difference, I suppose, between Western Europe and the States (and I have spent time in the US) is that all-inclusive, comprehesive healthcare (something Medicare doesn't really provide) is considered a human right and hence the emphasis on "free" medical treatment.

But don't start me on money grabbing dentists, most of whom refuse to participate in the NHS programme (a big problem in England, less so in Scotland and Northern Ireland)

 

[BPSCG]

Just to be quite clear here, since our American friend seems a bit confused:

1. Everyone who works pays national insurance contributions in addition to income tax...

(...SNIP...)

2. In return we get free healthcare

Emphasis mine. I submit to you that if you pay for it, it is not free. That's like saying when I go to the grocery store, I pay money to the cashier, and in return, I get free sausages.

 

[Architect]

You've already seen the answer to that; it's free to everyone at the point of delivery. No limits on treatment. No questions of about the scope of medicare (and its sister programmes). No insurers quibbling over treatment.

When I was in hospital my American sister in law visited. I was rather amused by her questions as to (a) amount of excess, (b) limits on insured treatment, (c) how would I keep getting paid whilst off work. Laugh? Too right.

Like I say, it's a philosophical/social issue. In Western Europe, there is far greater emphasis on free universal healthcare - regardless of ability to pay - than in the States. Like education, it's seen as a human right.

 

[hgc]

Emphasis mine. I submit to you that if you pay for it, it is not free. That's like saying when I go to the grocery store, I pay money to the cashier, and in return, I get free sausages.

And your stance is analogous to saying that driving down the freeway ain't free, since my taxes went to paving it. You know darn well what someone means when they say "free" healthcare, and you're trying to obliterate that meaning with word games.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Emphasis mine. I submit to you that if you pay for it, it is not free. That's like saying when I go to the grocery store, I pay money to the cashier, and in return, I get free sausages.

Yep, as opposed to in the US where health care is truely free. You just go into the ER and you can get treated, and you don't have to pay(they will try to bill you but you can ignore them).

 

[DanishDynamite]

A (several times removed) colleague of mine is intending to holiday in Cuba in 2 weeks time.

I wouldn't go myself at this point, but I'm not sure if I should warn him off or not?

 

[Architect]

And your stance is analogous to saying that driving down the freeway ain't free, since my taxes went to paving it. You know darn well what someone means when they say "free" healthcare, and you're trying to obliterate that meaning with word games.

Exactly.

Ditto things like mains water supply, sewers, police, fire brigades, and all the other thing the state provides.

 

[Garrette]

I have to side with Beeps on this. The UK healthcare isn't free. I've never considered highways or state roads in the US to be free. I don't consider police, fire departments, sewers, or water to be free, either. For the last two, in addition to having them subsidized through taxes, we pay for usage (with the exception of those who have private well water and septic systems).

 

[Architect]

But they are all free at the point of delivery, and regardless of ability to pay.

 

[Garrette]

But they are all free at the point of delivery, and regardless of ability to pay.

Agreed. But I agreed to that in my first post. (Actually, this may not pertain to water which can be shut off for failure to pay, but that's getting way too far off topic).

 

[Darat]

Anyway whether Castro created the best totally and utterly free health system in the world or not he was still a ruthless dictator and the world will be every so slightly a better place with him gone.

However it could soon get a bit worse depending on what happens after he dies, from everything that I've read I'd say that his actual power has already been passed on but that doesn't mean there won't be a lot of disruption when he actually dies (or if he is already dead when it is officially announced).

 

[Architect]

In Britain - well Scotland, but the English courts would tend to follow the judgement - it was held that water could not be cut off for non payment of any variation on taxes. So there you go!

 

[Garrette]

I would be surprised if there isn't disruption or turmoil, though I don't predict violence. Just a lot of political maneuvering and perhaps doomsaying.

 

[dann]

Health Care in Cuba.

 

[Garrette]

In Britain - well Scotland, but the English courts would tend to follow the judgement - it was held that water could not be cut off for non payment of any variation on taxes. So there you go!

Ah, you Scots and your profligate ways with water.

 

[Architect]

Ah, you Scots and your profligate ways with water.

Well, we've so much of it! It's almost as if it falls out of the sky.....


Just as an aside, the Scottish Courts also produced the great judgement that wheel clamping was criminal because it amounted to extortion based on illegal seizure of goods.

This causes much amusement in the press whenever English firms clamp someone, then much to their surprise get arrested.

 

[Garrette]

Well, we've so much of it! It's almost as if it falls out of the sky.....


Just as an aside, the Scottish Courts also produced the great judgement that wheel clamping was criminal because it amounted to extortion based on illegal seizure of goods.

This causes much amusement in the press whenever English firms clamp someone, then much to their surprise get arrested.

I like that sentiment, but I suppose we should led the thread get back to its original topic.

 

[dann]

Anyway whether Castro created the best totally and utterly free health system in the world or not he was still a ruthless dictator and the world will be every so slightly a better place with him gone.

Aren't you the guy with this in his sig line, Darat?

If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being.

Why do you think that Castro is/was "ruthless"? And why do you think that "the world will be every so slightly a better place" when death destroys him and thus seperates him "from the rest of us"? Don't you find it weird that an allegedly ruthless dictator creates a free health system, which may not be the very best in the world, but still very good considering what Cuba has to make good with?

 

[Architect]

Spoilsport!