Thanks for responding. While people may achieve pin levels, that doesn't mean net profits. People who are serious business builders can have significant business expenses as well. I was an IBO at one time, and I was moving 4000 PV. I had the green 4000 pin but my net profit was zero because of the expenses that I had to run my business.
Thanks for responding. While people may achieve pin levels, that doesn't mean net profits. People who are serious business builders can have significant business expenses as well. I was an IBO at one time, and I was moving 4000 PV. I had the green 4000 pin but my net profit was zero because of the expenses that I had to run my business.
ComfySlippers
Banned
Amway is like Scientology.
Who the heck gets given pretend accolades in real life?
(I'm an emerald ambassador from Jupiter who owns a donkey named Gerald)
Who the heck gets given pretend accolades in real life?
(I'm an emerald ambassador from Jupiter who owns a donkey named Gerald)
One thing that Amway does to help the pretend accolades is the
"once a diamond, always a diamond" recognition. Thus someone who might achieve that status once for 6 months, might never qualify again, but might be able to cash in on the "side" tool business.
When you see some list of all the new "diamonds", you never really know who''s still on stage but no longer qualified. Many diamonds have quit Amway, moved to other MLMs, or resigned. What I've not seen is a diamond "walking away to collect residual income". Many diamonds work longer than people with jobs, even until death, although you can argue whether their work is "easy" or not. But still, having to be someplace at a particular time is similar to a job.
If the money was so good and kept coming in perpetually, wouldn't we know about some diamonds who took this option?
My 8 years experience with Amway, and advise
I have been doing amway for the last 8 years, and I have seen a lot of ups and downs throughout my experience. No matter how my business was doing, I was sold on one thing, Amway works. If it is not going the way I want it to go, it has to do something with me, or the way I run things. Recently however, things have changed. New discoveries, personal studies from Amway's own literature, I have come to a conclusion that it will not work for me. The thing that I was sold on (Amway always works) was mostly a subtle thought injected in me by the CDs and seminars I have listened
For my accomplishments, I attained a platinum business few years ago, and have been doing good, no great. I also have another platinum business under me, and other legs all silvers. For anyone who knows a little about Amway, that’s a solid Emerald foundation. Emerald these days makes roughly around 100k gross. Please don’t think this 100k is yearly. The residual nature of the business that is being sold to everyone works in one way, and one way only. As long as you are working, showing the plan, selling training materials, and getting qualified again, you will make that 100k as an Emerald again. This applies to any pin starting from 100pv all the way up to crown, as long as you are showing the plan, getting people started, and doing every trick in the book to make people stay, you will get paid. Forget getting paid. The free trips that your upline brags about, you have to get qualified for these trips every year. If you went diamond and then stopped performing, guess what. That peter island trip will only come once.
Why did I quit? Well, few reasons. The 100k I mentioned earlier, not every Emerald will get it. It is tricky. With my structure, 3 platinum’s of, roughly around 60 people, I am going to make 60k. A good amount of money nevertheless. The problem with this is, to achieve this, there is no amount of work that I will do, will justify the leadership that I have reached my true limit (and I have a great work ethic, paid my college tuition during college, working 2 jobs with 15+ credits). If I complain the leadership why I am getting paid less than what is written, I would get the following answers:
• Your structure does not reflect your goal. Increase numbers
• It is a numbers game. Show more plans, qualify more eagles, it is simple, everyone is doing it already
• What’s your dream? Maybe you need to find another dream as this one is not really pushing you
• Any income from business is good income. One of the many common mantras that every Amway/BWW leader has: Business income is way better than job income. I would take 60k of business income over 160k of job income. This may be true for some, but the leadership expects everyone to think similarly, which in my opinion, pretty ****** mentality.
Another reason. The amount of lies my uplines have told me, and the amount of lies I have told people about Amway (knowingly and not knowingly) is unimaginable. I was encouraged to lie to the prospects and new IBOs. Why? To help them in the long run. Additionally, I was told to break up with my girlfriend few years ago, because she was anti amway. I was not told directly, but implied during a "core training" session. I will quote accurately
"Ladies, do you like your men to be dreamers? Gents, do you like your women to be goal setters, go getters? Would you ever settle with a person without these qualities? If you are dating someone who is not a dreamer, go getter, or who is antiamway, there are plenty of other options out there. You cannot afford to jeopardize your future with someone who is against what you are doing here"
I would also like to point out the claims people make that leaders get a side income by selling tools. Let me tell you, you are correct! For every CD and for every book you move, there is a margin of 60-80 cents at the lowest level. For example, Platinum will get some cut(60 cents), emerald will get some cut
(more than 60c) and diamond will get a cut. Even at platinum level, the profits that comes through selling CDs and Books, covers the cost of all the products needed for one household
So why are some people successful? You will be successful as long as you are willing to do the work, and the work is dirty, shady and never 100% satisfying. If you are ok lying to people, forcing people to do things, influencing people to believe what is not there, then yes, you have a chance.
In the end, I would like to add that icerat has been informative in the past, to me at least. Why did I like his comments? Because I was so blinded by the religious teachings of Amway/BWW, I was not willing to accept the truth. After re-reading 5-6 pages, I know one thing for sure. what icerat writes here is what they teach in their seminars and special training sessions. This is called bullet proofing. Answer to every negative question, any critic is provided here. Needless to say I have heard the exact same things over and over again in these seminars. No offense to you icerat, I like you. I would recommend you think over this whole process critically, rather than emotionally. Again, just a suggestion, no need to start an argument
Good luck to you all
I have been doing amway for the last 8 years, and I have seen a lot of ups and downs throughout my experience. No matter how my business was doing, I was sold on one thing, Amway works. If it is not going the way I want it to go, it has to do something with me, or the way I run things. Recently however, things have changed. New discoveries, personal studies from Amway's own literature, I have come to a conclusion that it will not work for me. The thing that I was sold on (Amway always works) was mostly a subtle thought injected in me by the CDs and seminars I have listened
For my accomplishments, I attained a platinum business few years ago, and have been doing good, no great. I also have another platinum business under me, and other legs all silvers. For anyone who knows a little about Amway, that’s a solid Emerald foundation. Emerald these days makes roughly around 100k gross. Please don’t think this 100k is yearly. The residual nature of the business that is being sold to everyone works in one way, and one way only. As long as you are working, showing the plan, selling training materials, and getting qualified again, you will make that 100k as an Emerald again. This applies to any pin starting from 100pv all the way up to crown, as long as you are showing the plan, getting people started, and doing every trick in the book to make people stay, you will get paid. Forget getting paid. The free trips that your upline brags about, you have to get qualified for these trips every year. If you went diamond and then stopped performing, guess what. That peter island trip will only come once.
Why did I quit? Well, few reasons. The 100k I mentioned earlier, not every Emerald will get it. It is tricky. With my structure, 3 platinum’s of, roughly around 60 people, I am going to make 60k. A good amount of money nevertheless. The problem with this is, to achieve this, there is no amount of work that I will do, will justify the leadership that I have reached my true limit (and I have a great work ethic, paid my college tuition during college, working 2 jobs with 15+ credits). If I complain the leadership why I am getting paid less than what is written, I would get the following answers:
• Your structure does not reflect your goal. Increase numbers
• It is a numbers game. Show more plans, qualify more eagles, it is simple, everyone is doing it already
• What’s your dream? Maybe you need to find another dream as this one is not really pushing you
• Any income from business is good income. One of the many common mantras that every Amway/BWW leader has: Business income is way better than job income. I would take 60k of business income over 160k of job income. This may be true for some, but the leadership expects everyone to think similarly, which in my opinion, pretty ****** mentality.
Another reason. The amount of lies my uplines have told me, and the amount of lies I have told people about Amway (knowingly and not knowingly) is unimaginable. I was encouraged to lie to the prospects and new IBOs. Why? To help them in the long run. Additionally, I was told to break up with my girlfriend few years ago, because she was anti amway. I was not told directly, but implied during a "core training" session. I will quote accurately
"Ladies, do you like your men to be dreamers? Gents, do you like your women to be goal setters, go getters? Would you ever settle with a person without these qualities? If you are dating someone who is not a dreamer, go getter, or who is antiamway, there are plenty of other options out there. You cannot afford to jeopardize your future with someone who is against what you are doing here"
I would also like to point out the claims people make that leaders get a side income by selling tools. Let me tell you, you are correct! For every CD and for every book you move, there is a margin of 60-80 cents at the lowest level. For example, Platinum will get some cut(60 cents), emerald will get some cut
(more than 60c) and diamond will get a cut. Even at platinum level, the profits that comes through selling CDs and Books, covers the cost of all the products needed for one household
So why are some people successful? You will be successful as long as you are willing to do the work, and the work is dirty, shady and never 100% satisfying. If you are ok lying to people, forcing people to do things, influencing people to believe what is not there, then yes, you have a chance.
In the end, I would like to add that icerat has been informative in the past, to me at least. Why did I like his comments? Because I was so blinded by the religious teachings of Amway/BWW, I was not willing to accept the truth. After re-reading 5-6 pages, I know one thing for sure. what icerat writes here is what they teach in their seminars and special training sessions. This is called bullet proofing. Answer to every negative question, any critic is provided here. Needless to say I have heard the exact same things over and over again in these seminars. No offense to you icerat, I like you. I would recommend you think over this whole process critically, rather than emotionally. Again, just a suggestion, no need to start an argument
Good luck to you all
Welcome to the board!
It is so interesting to read a story like this as I feel like I can't really understand what you are saying because the jargon is so company specific. I get the big picture, but I assume others in the business will get more from it. For that reason I am glad you wrote it the way you did.
You sound like someone who will land on their feet. I hope your post Amway path is a bit more pleasant.
And stick around. We talk about other stuff too, you know.
This is so spot on, but really it applies across so many parts of life.
Thanks Keith. Yes, I was targeting people who already are in the business, or who are familiar with it and considering about it. I will try to make it more informative for everyone if anyone has any questions
Yes - There are some good things I have learned from my Amway experience. One of those things is quality listening ability. However, my listening was sharpened only to catch something that I could use to justify Amway business. My past self would have listened, but would provide reasons why it sill works.
All core Amway reps are strong at defending. Thats why I want to provide educated facts to anyone who is looking for truth.
And I agree, we all are dreamers. Normal people dont abuse this beautiful phenomenon. In Amway, it is used as a weapon.
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2006
- Messages
- 36,442
It is difficult to listen for what you do not want to hear.
Even though your past self wouldn't have listened, there are others at all different points along the path you have just traveled. Somewhere along that path this information would have helped you. Let's hope it helps someone else.
Thank you for reading!
Thats the goal. After experiencing something this trumatic, I believe it is my human duty to inform others. In Amway seminars, what I am doing is called spreading negativity. They refer people like me as someone who tried and failed. Well, I did this for 8 years and reached a good level in the business. I hope I bring something valuable to the table that will really help a seeking soul
Beelzebuddy
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2010
- Messages
- 10,637
This is like something a Scientologist might say, where each of the individual words are in actual English but they don't completely work when read all together, yet any attempt to infer their true meaning leaves enough contextual gaps for a well-trained representative to parrot canned excuses about how you're misunderstanding them. But since this isn't our first trip to the rodeo we can recognize that as intentional, which implies the sinister vision between the lines is indeed accurate and as sinister as we picture. I can only imagine the effort it much have taken to forcibly extricate yourself from that mindset.
"Is Amway A Scam?" It sounds more like a cult.
Dissolution
Master Poster
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2013
- Messages
- 2,306
Not all scams are cults, but all cults are scams.
The simplest answer for me is that most of the company's workers don't actually make any money.
I've not really looked too far into it as yet, but the comparisons with Scientology seem to instantly set off alarms as soon as you start to look.
Thank you for sharing that. I was a former Amway IBO (WWDB) and while I was only at 4000 PV, my story was similar to your. I had reached 4000 PV and was considered a mover and shaker. I got the attention of the diamond so I was getting into extra board plans and meetings.
But one day my upline came straight out and told me to ditch my fiance' because she was holding me back and that I could build the business faster if I focused on that instead if a relationship. Keep in mind that my girlfriend was pro-amway. They told me I could find a new girlfriend as a single emerald.
I also questioned why I didn't take home what they showed me as I had eagle parameters and had all the right width and depth they told me about, including the tools sales. I should have had a net profit of $1000 but it never happened. I never got a straight answer from upline and I was told that the money would be there if I kept building.
I smelled a rat so I started to do the math and figured that even platinum would not be much profit with all the work involved and then because they wanted me to ditch my fiance' and they wanted me to check upline for everything, including when to buy a new car and when to get married or have kids. I also started to realize that they were milking everyone for tool money and the decision was made to walk away.
Sadly, my sponsor is still active, still chasing the end of the rainbow and while he went gold producer (direct) at that time (1996?), he is nowhere near that level but still recruiting and attending all functions. It's a waste of life.
I am sorry this happened to you. The truth is it is very hard to make the money they claim you can make. Some people do make it, but that too takes a lot of effort, constant lying and deceit. You hit the nail on "check with upline" part.
For those who dont know what "check with upline" is. It is a very subtle way to make amway reps believe that they cant make any important decisions in life. Buying a car? check with upline. Buying a house? check with upline. Getting married? check with upline. Heck, I am ashamed to tell you all that even the wedding date has to be approved by uplines. It sounds crazy now, but there has been countless CDs and seminars to brainwash people why "checking with upline" is the ultimate key to success
I believe the check with upline is there because they want t make sure that you don't commit to spending money that would take away your ability to purchase tools and seminars. I remember teaching where the upline said to get out of debt and then turn around and say it was only okay to go in debt to invest in your business (meaning to buy cds, books and seminars).
how pathetic is that
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2006
- Messages
- 36,442
It goes deeper.
I used to play around 20-30 years ago, trolling these people lightly to see what made them tick, and the attitudes - and platitudes - of Amway & Scientology are the same. The same brainwashing techniques, dianetics becomes NLP, the focus on networking...
Peas from the same pod, as dishonest as each other.
I did have a good laugh just a few months ago on Amway's behalf. One of the many Amway types who tried to recruit me into a downline 20+ years ago rang me up looking for a job as a sales rep.
"A job?" I asked. "Aren't you a multimillionaire yet? You told me 20 years ago you'd be long retired by now."
Just to reclarify: early on in this thread I wrote "Amway is the scamway". I have seen much that verifies that and nothing that shows it to be remotely wrong. I have also been lied to about who it was three different times - the last a lady who my wife and I and five others used to be friends with. She made a huge mistake.