Is alcoholism a disease or something else?

...and there I was, believing that "diseases" were defined by experts in relevant fields of science instead of posts by sum d00d in some forum...
Imagine my surprise ..
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Been trying to tell them that!
 
I just don't see the disease angle.

I guess I'm in the "if you can't treat it medically, it's not a disease" crowd.
 
I guess I'm in the "if you can't treat it medically, it's not a disease" crowd.
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YOU CAN! My brother (the super alcoholic) was once put on medication by his doctor that eliminated his cravings.
Forgot what is was.... some sort of brand new bi-polar drug I think.

He didn't care for alcohol one bit for months....
He had an insurance error, couldn't get the pills for a month (super expensive) and then he had a relapse.... a HARD relapse.
Hasn't come back since. and that was bout a year ago.
 
zerospeaks said:
YOU CAN! My brother (the super alcoholic) was once put on medication by his doctor that eliminated his cravings.
Forgot what is was.... some sort of brand new bi-polar drug I think.

He didn't care for alcohol one bit for months....
He had an insurance error, couldn't get the pills for a month (super expensive) and then he had a relapse.... a HARD relapse.
Hasn't come back since. and that was bout a year ago.
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I've known alcoholics that can do the same thing without medication.

Then there's jail. 6mo to 1yr and everthing is hunky-dory, then get out and straight to the nearest bar or package store.

To me that seems mental, not physical.

But I'm no expert.
 
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Then there's jail. 6mo to 1yr and everthing is hunky-dory, then get out and straight to the nearest bar or package store.
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I hate to run back to my brother the anecdotal evidence... but, sure he was dry in jail.... sort of... they had a vegetable oil based fermented...something... anyway.... his cravings never stopped. The medicine made the cravings stop.
 
zerospeaks said:
YOU CAN! My brother (the super alcoholic) was once put on medication by his doctor that eliminated his cravings.
Forgot what is was.... some sort of brand new bi-polar drug I think.
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I linked to this yesterday, although I'm sure in an area with such potential for huge profits for the pharmco's there are lots of drugs being developed/on the market.
 
zerospeaks said:
The person is born with the inclination to drink and get addicted to drinking whether they drink or not. If they do take a drink the problem normally manifests itself.... but it's not a disease?
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WRONG

A person is born with a PREDISPOSITION to alcoholism. NOT alcoholism. Learn the difference god dammnit.

Heck, It is not a 100% correlation, as some with that predisposition will not be alcoholic even drinking moderately, and some without the gene will fall into alcoholism.

Your "wife" should learn what predisposition means really.

:)
 
zerospeaks said:
http://www.alcoholjournal.org/article/S0741-8329(97)00175-4/abstract

WOW! This pretty much nails the coffin shut.

The study shows that they can predict just HOW BAD OF AN ALCOHOLIC someone is likely to be based on the prevalence and frequency of genetic factors.
Your genes actually decide how bad a drunk you will be.
YOU ARE BORN WITH IT.




It's ok to admit your wrong dude. Are you still going with the " they just have weak willpower" argument?
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DUde, learn what prevalence means. You are really digging yourself DEEEEP in.
 
Aepervius said:
WRONG

A person is born with a PREDISPOSITION to alcoholism. NOT alcoholism. Learn the difference god dammnit.

Heck, It is not a 100% correlation, as some with that predisposition will not be alcoholic even drinking moderately, and some without the gene will fall into alcoholism.

Your "wife" should learn what predisposition means really.

:)
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But, but his wife...and his brother...:rolleyes:
 
zerospeaks said:
My non-expert definition of alcoholic is :someone who has a predisposition to become addicted to drinking and continue to drink against threat of harm...

YOU DONT NEED TO TAKE A DRINK TO HAVE THE PREDISPOSITION!
What is so absurd about this concept?



Ha, it's hilarious because I already mentioned this before posting the study.
There is argument over whether or not it should be called addictionism....
and considered/treated as such.
Maybe if I repeat myself 300 times, someone will actual read what I am saying.
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BBut you need more than a predisposition to be alcoholic. Is that so hard to read english ?
 
zerospeaks said:
No, not really. My wife is the behavioral neuroscientist..... for the 2 hundredth time.
I based my decision on the info that she gave me.
...and trusted her expertise...
...and ironically she is going to a conference in a couple of weeks ADDRESSING THIS VERY ISSUE.... addiction...and alcoholism...

So nope, I'm not an expert. Don't pretend to be.
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So so far, you have shown zip to say that anything more than a certain percentage of alcohol dependant people have a biological predisposition.

Guess what buddy, I am not a biological neuroscientist but I went to trainings about substance abuse and substance dependence twice a year, and you don't know squat about dependence or substance abuse. And guess who were the key speakers at those trainings, ‘experts’ in the field of substance dependence and abuse.

You have yet to provide a single study that demonstrates any of the crap that you have blamed on your wife. Biblical fail.

So far I have presented that dependence is a multivariate issue, with comorbidity, conditioning, physical consequences and biological predispositions.


So far all you have presented is "MY WIFE TOLD ME AND SHE IS RIGHT".

Either present the studies that back your outrageous claims or learn to make a coherent argument.
 
zerospeaks said:
From the NIH... YAY!!!



LINKY

Theoretically there is so many orgs that consider it a disease I could just keep posting links and never engage in conversation again...
This is fun.
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That is not a coherent argument, that is argument by appeal to authority and populism.

And again with an FAQ, so do you actually know what the phrase "Define disease" might mean, that would be a good basis for starting a coherent argument.

But I am sure that the world of press releases and FAQs will keep you from ever learning to engage in your own critical thoughts and discussions.
 
zerospeaks said:
YOU DONT NEED TO TAKE A DRINK TO HAVE THE PREDISPOSITION!
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So in your mind the word predisposition equals the word disease, fascinating. And so the alcoholics that do not have the genetic predisposition have something like what? And the people who have the predisposition but even when exposed to alcohol do not become addicts, have what?
 
zerospeaks said:
YOU CAN! My brother (the super alcoholic) was once put on medication by his doctor that eliminated his cravings.
Forgot what is was.... some sort of brand new bi-polar drug I think.
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And that means he likely had bipolar disorder, so again you show that if your read the posts here you do not comprehend the words.
 
zerospeaks said:
From the NIH... YAY!!!

Theoretically there is so many orgs that consider it a disease I could just keep posting links and never engage in conversation again...
This is fun.
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In short, alcohol is a disease because it technically fits the dictionary definition of disease.

However, the point of calling it a disease is clearly to try and take responsibility off of the addicts for becoming addicted and continuing to be addicted. Similar "not your fault" tactics are used with drugs and some other things. What the term "disease" is meant to imply, playing on the common usage, is that it is some disorder you inadvertently picked up, so catching and having it are not your fault - in that way it is just an attempt to duck responsibility for an addiction.
 
Aepervius said:
WRONG

A person is born with a PREDISPOSITION to alcoholism. NOT alcoholism. Learn the difference god dammnit.
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I suspect a person is born with (or, even more likely, learns) a "predisposition" to be addicted to anything from drugs and alcohol to a girlfriend or chocolate and those who disply that weakness by drinking a lot we call alcoholics and we point out how alcoholism can fit the dictionary definition of disease, to make them feel better. Those addicted to food we call fat and those addicted to ex-girlfriends we call stalkers. I believe it's all no more than an inability to deny their own impulses.
 
Alcoholism is almost unknown in Muslim countries, for obvious reasons. If alcoholism is a disease, then (following zerospeaks argument) do people in Muslim countries still have the disease yet it's not manifest because they can't get access to alcohol? If some people have a genetic predisposition towards alcoholism, does this predisposition have the same prevalence in Muslim countries as it does in people where alcohol is legally available? In countries where alcohol is not easily available, do those with the predisposition towards alcoholism abuse other substances instead?
 
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