Is alcoholism a disease or something else?

Again, you present an example that is clearly pathological .. ( ask your wife what that word means.. )

I can't believe you are arguing that alcoholism is NOT pathological.
Did we forget that the brain is an organ.
Would you consider sociopaths to have a pathological disorder?

Pathological Gambling and Alcohol use disorder.

So. It is passed on genetically. The person is born with the inclination to drink and get addicted to drinking whether they drink or not. If they do take a drink the problem normally manifests itself.... but it's not a disease?

Are you guys still holding to the low willpower argument?
Because I know for a fact my wife would argue that is genetic also.
 
I'm gonna defer to experts again, you can call it arguing from authority if you wish.
From the CDC.

What is the difference between alcohol abuse and alcoholism?
Alcohol abuse4 is a pattern of drinking that results in harm to one’s health, interpersonal relationships, or ability to work. Manifestations of alcohol abuse include the following:

Failure to fulfill major responsibilities at work, school, or home.
Drinking in dangerous situations, such as drinking while driving or operating machinery.
Legal problems related to alcohol, such as being arrested for drinking while driving or for physically hurting someone while drunk.
Continued drinking despite ongoing relationship problems that are caused or worsened by drinking.
Long-term alcohol abuse can turn into alcohol dependence.
Dependency on alcohol, also known as alcohol addiction and alcoholism4, is a chronic disease. The signs and symptoms of alcohol dependence include—

A strong craving for alcohol.
Continued use despite repeated physical, psychological, or interpersonal problems.
The inability to limit drinking.
 
I'm gonna defer to experts again, you can call it arguing from authority if you wish.
From the CDC.

Funny, you did not cite the page, that is a really weak citation then.

ETA: Why didn't you just cite 'pop psychology news releases', since when is an FAQ an 'expert'?
http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm

Again, are you in the running for 'Inability to make coherent argument'?



You will notice what? that the CDC got it wrong, they cites the DSM-IV as saying it is a chronic disease, they do not. They call it a disorder, sheesh.

Olympic fail.
 
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And where does it say that in the paper that it is genetic, some people with AD seem to have a biological predisposition, others DO NOT.

Heterogeneity in the order of onset, on the other hand, would be consistent with (but again, not proof of) the existence of a third variable (e.g., shared genetic factors or pathophysiology)
serving as a common cause for both conditions. Further complicating
the picture, causal associations may manifest on an event level (e.g., alcohol use may disinhibit a wide range of inappropriate behaviors including problematic gambling [e.g., Smart and Ferris 1996]) or on a syndrome level (e.g., a new onset of PG occurring, ostensibly as a substitute for drinking, following alcoholism treatment [e.g., Ingram-Smith 1967; Lesieur and Heineman 1988]).
....
Dopamine may also play a major role in the regulation of this region’s functioning
(Kuhar et al. 1991; Self et al. 1996). In fact, researchers have theorized
that dysregulation in the systems supporting the activities of dopamine and the neurotransmitter serotonin may be central in both AUD and PG (Comings et al. 1996; Blum et al. 1995). Further, evidence suggests that specific genetic variations in the gene for the dopamine D2 receptor (a specific binding
molecule with which dopamine interacts) and the serotonin transporter gene may mediate, to some extent, individual differences in reward motivation
and responsiveness (Potenza 2001; Ibanez et al. 2001).
...
Researchers can estimate the extent of genetic versus environmental contributions
to specific behaviors and conditions
by contrasting their concordance between identical (i.e., monozygotic) and fraternal (i.e., dizygotic) twin pairs. In the only twin study that specifically examined these associations for PG and AUD, Slutske and colleagues (2000) reported that in a large male twin sample,
12 to 20 percent of the genetic variation in risk for PG and 3 percent to 8 percent of the nonshared environmental variation in the risk for PG was accounted for by risk for AUD
...

May, may may may, not is is is is
 
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The National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence
http://www.ncadd.org/facts/defalc.html

Alcoholism is a primary, chronic disease with genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. The disease is often progressive and fatal. It is characterized by continuous or periodic: impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking, most notably denial."

"Disease" means an involuntary disability. It represents the sum of the abnormal phenomena displayed by a group of individuals. These phenomena are associated with a specified common set of characteristics by which these individuals differ from the norm, and which places them at a disadvantage.
 
Dopamine D2 receptors have been implicated in the biology of alcohol preference. We examined the -141 C Ins/Del polymorphism in the promoter region of the dopamine D2 receptor gene (DRD2) and the DRD2 Taql A polymorphisms in 209 Japanese alcoholics and 152 age- and sex-matched Japanese controls. The Ins allele was significantly increased in the alcoholics, compared with the control....

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2378667

Man this is fun.
 
The person is born with the inclination to drink and get addicted to drinking whether they drink or not.
So you are still claiming that people can be born alcoholic? Even if they never have a drink? This is almost too silly for words.

A child of African athletes may have the potential to be a good sprinter. What if he never runs? Is he still a sprinter? According to your logic, yes.

Hardly fun, fun, fun. More rubbish, rubbish, rubbish.
 
A child of African athletes may have the potential to be a good sprinter. What if he never runs? Is he still a sprinter? According to your logic, yes.

Yes, because potential athleticism is the same thing as a genetic trait that changes the way your brain works.
 
A child of African athletes may have the potential to be a good sprinter. What if he never runs? Is he still a sprinter? According to your logic, yes.

My parents trained long and hard to be alcoholics. According to your logic, the only reason that I'm not an alcoholic is, perversely, because I lack the willpower...
 
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Yes, because potential athleticism is the same thing as a genetic trait that changes the way your brain works.
Oh this is pure gold. Someone who never runs is now a sprinter!

It's really a lot easier to admit you were wrong about people being born alcoholic than keep digging deeper and deeper holes. It is humourous though.
 
Upon further reflection I will straight up defend that stance.

Yes, I would consider Micheal phelps to be BORN, genetically speaking, a good swimmer.

I was originally being sarcastic when I said

Yes, because potential athleticism is the same thing as a genetic trait that changes the way your brain works.
 
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It's really a lot easier to admit you were wrong about people being born alcoholic than keep digging deeper and deeper holes. It is humourous though.

Who's hole is being dug here?
I showed studies that claimed alcoholism is passed on genetically.
 
Upon further reflection I will straight up defend that stance.

Yes, I would consider Micheal phelps to be BORN, genetically speaking, a good swimmer.
Is English your first language? Would Michael Phelps be a good swimmer if he never swam in his life? Keep digging.
 
http://www.alcoholjournal.org/article/S0741-8329(97)00175-4/abstract

WOW! This pretty much nails the coffin shut.

The study shows that they can predict just HOW BAD OF AN ALCOHOLIC someone is likely to be based on the prevalence and frequency of genetic factors.
Your genes actually decide how bad a drunk you will be.
YOU ARE BORN WITH IT.

The role of the D2 dopamine receptor (DRD2) gene in alcoholism and other substance use disorders has come under intense investigation since the minor TaqI A (A1) allele of the DRD2 gene was first reported to be associated with alcoholism. In a meta-analysis of 15 US and international studies of European (non-Hispanic) Caucasians, consisting of 1015 alcoholics (more severe and less severe) and 898 controls (unassessed and assessed for alcoholism), alcoholics had a higher prevalence (p < 10−7) and frequency (p < 10−5) of the A1 allele than controls. The prevalence of the A1 allele was 1.5-fold higher in more severe than less severe alcoholics (p < 10−4), whereas unassessed controls had a twofold higher prevalence of the A1 allele than assessed controls (p < 10−4). Whereas more severe alcoholics had a threefold higher A1 allelic prevalence than assessed control..


It's ok to admit your wrong dude. Are you still going with the " they just have weak willpower" argument?
 

The National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence
http://www.ncadd.org/facts/defalc.html


And are any of them at the 68% level of correlation?
Did you consider all the people who meet the criteria and have no family history of alcohol addiction.

Do you even read the words 'biological predisposition'? In some people but not even close to all who have alocohol addiction.
 
http://www.alcoholjournal.org/article/S0741-8329(97)00175-4/abstract

WOW! This pretty much nails the coffin shut.

The study shows that they can predict just HOW BAD OF AN ALCOHOLIC someone is likely to be based on the prevalence and frequency of genetic factors.
Your genes actually decide how bad a drunk you will be.
YOU ARE BORN WITH IT.




It's ok to admit your wrong dude. Are you still going with the " they just have weak willpower" argument?

Considering I never said it, no. But considering you can't even give percentages and correlations I think you don't knwo what you are doing.
w
 
Do you even read the words 'biological predisposition'? In some people but not even close to all who have alocohol addiction.

Sorry, don't remember claiming ALL people with addiction to alcohol are alcoholics.
In fact I supported the opposite stance earlier in the thread telling someone they may not be an alcoholic because they were able to control their drinking with ease.
 
Who's hole is being dug here?
I showed studies that claimed alcoholism is passed on genetically.

No you did not, you can't even read and obviously haven't ever studied epidemiology and genetics.

Some biological predisposition is associated with certain characteristics, you have not shown any thing about it even being a majority of people with alcohol addiction.
 
Considering I never said it, no. But considering you can't even give percentages and correlations I think you don't knwo what you are doing.

No, not really. My wife is the behavioral neuroscientist..... for the 2 hundredth time.
I based my decision on the info that she gave me.
...and trusted her expertise...
...and ironically she is going to a conference in a couple of weeks ADDRESSING THIS VERY ISSUE.... addiction...and alcoholism...

So nope, I'm not an expert. Don't pretend to be.
 

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