Is alcoholism a disease or something else?

[dtugg]

BTW My uncle just had 1/2 of one lung removed due to cancer caused by smoking cigarettes. Was his cancer not a disease since it was caused by smoking and he could have put them down anytime? He started smoking again as soon as he got out the hospital. I guess the next time he gets cancer, it'll be the non-disease kind again.

I think people who argue that alcoholism is not a disease would say that yes his cancer was a disease but being addicted to cigarettes is not.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Anyone that doubts alcoholism is a disease is welcome to visit my friend Steve. He and I were drinking buddies since the 10th grade. He can be seen on the 2nd FL of Forsyth Hospital here in Winston. This is his 4th time in the hospital in 3 years. He is suffering from multiple organ failure due to alcohol abuse. Since his liver isn't funtioning properly, he has a build up of bilirubin in his blood stream that makes him seem drunk all the time so that saves him money on beer, except he has been in the hospital for three weeks so I guess financially it's a wash. His wife, children, friends and job have all left him and I'm about to. Not because I don't love him. I'd just rather not watch him die. Oh, and by the way, I have a message for you from Steve....

BTW My uncle just had 1/2 of one lung removed due to cancer caused by smoking cigarettes. Was his cancer not a disease since it was caused by smoking and he could have put them down anytime? He started smoking again as soon as he got out the hospital. I guess the next time he gets cancer, it'll be the non-disease kind again.

None of that is a valid argument for " Alcoholism is a disease. " It simply shows that alcohol, when consumed in unhealthful amounts, causes damage to the body. The same for inhaling toxic vapors.

 

[Dancing David]

Still not seeing what the distinction you're trying to make is.

When the medics say "alcoholism is a disease," they're comparing it with the "alcoholism is a moral failing" camp that was the dominant motif for oh-so-many centuries.

What the fred does that have to do with ‘can be a focus of medical treatment’.

Preachers would talk from the pulpit about the sin of drunkenness and then invite everyone up to the rails for communion, because "everyone knew" that the only reason someone would drink to excess was because they were reprobates and a stern talking-to would let them see the light and become social drinkers like everyone else.

that isn’t what I said either.

No, alcoholism is not a moral failing; it's like a disease in that it's a biological condition that's largely beyond the control of the alcoholic.

Wow, how you got that out of, it is a disease in the sense that it can a focus medical treatment is beyond me. You added all that crap about moral failings that I never said. And where is your evidence that it is a biological condition largely beyond the control of the alcoholic, there are plenty of people who meet the criteria that are not type II alcoholics and don’t have a family history.
Way to go.

If you want to suggest that it's not a disease and not a moral failing, what is it -- and why is your proposed difference relevant?

I said exactly what I meant to say. It is a disease in the sense that is can be a focus of medical treatment, other than that it is a standard behavioral disorder (with possible physical consequences) and that for some people there may be a biological predisposition.

It is not determined by a withdrawal syndrome, it is not determined by the biological predisposition, there are many who have alcoholism that do not meet those criteria.

But that moral stuff I never said, and I am opposed to the moral model of alcoholism.

Way to assume, be sure to ask the clarifying questions after your rant on what I did not say.

 

[Dancing David]

If it is a disease that implies it is more biological, that there isn't anything outside of some future medical intervention that can "cure" it. The disease model of alcoholism seems to explicitly or implicitly downplay the social factors that may be playing a role. In my experience, it has often been the most hopeless of alcoholics who exclaim it's a disease, while the ones who have been sober for a long time see it as more of a "choice" or something that can be overcome by learning to live without alcohol.


This seems to mirror my thinking on the subject pretty well. And no, I do not consider alcoholism to be a "moral failing" either. Most if not all alcoholics may in fact have a disease, but it isn't alcoholism. This disease may be bipolar disorder or an anxiety disorder and they are self-medicating with alcohol. The alcohol may in fact worsen the disease they have, leading to a vicious cycle which is nearly impossible to escape from.

In my opinion.

The comorbidity in bipolar disorder is often found to be ~70% in studies. However the self medication behaviors are not the sole source of alcoholism, I agree with your post.

 

[Dancing David]

I have dyslexia. With hard work and effort, and the careful use of spell checking software, I can cope at normal levels. Does that mean dyslexia is a choice?

That is a strange one Weak Kitten, I too have dyslexia, both kinds, it is not a behavioral disorder although coping skills will be behavioral.

It is important to have people understand that these are things that the person has no control over.

That is not established in alcoholism, some people seem to have a biological predisposition but not all o fthem are alcoholics, that does not apply to dyslexia at all.

If alcoholism is viewed as a disease then people are less likely to try to pressure some poor alcoholism prone individual into social drinking.

Not true, it is always the choice of the individual, a choice they may not choose to make, the choices they can make are long before they end up in the bar.

These days you can just say something like, "My dad was an alcoholic." and people will back off. It wasn't always like that and the social change came because medicine put alcoholism into terms average people could understand.

Unestablished assertion.

 

[Dancing David]

I found what I thought was an interesting commentary:



http://www.physiciansnews.com/commentary/298wp.html

Except there is not always the strong genetic component, there are plenty of alcohol addicts that are not type II alcoholics.

ETA: And it works bothw ays, I come from a family with alcoholics on both sides , I have exposed myself heavily to alcohol. It was not my subtance of choice.

 

[Dancing David]

*Cough BULLCRAP *Cough

Once again, as an alcoholic, I willingly choose to put alcohol in my body.
In fact, this thread has made me want a cold one, I was gonna wait till 7 but nevermind.

Sure, I may have a genetic predisposition to enjoying, wanting, craving, depending on alcohol, but I can stop whenever I want by NOT DRINKING.
Which I don't want to do right now.

-SPECIAL NOTE-
I smoked for ten years. When I finally wanted to stop I stopped. Cold Turkey, my willpower was stronger then the cravings because I DECIDED TO NOT PUT NICOTINE IN MY BODY ANYMORE.
Alcohol will be the same, or I will burn up my liver, esophagus, or something else before I decide to quit.

-Addendum-

My brother is an alcoholic and he has let it completely destroy his life, he lives at a homeless shelter now and would rather be drunk then anything. He does not want help, he wants to drink.
What is the difference between him and I? I choose to not drink during the day and to go to work sober. I do not allow the alcohol to interfere with my life in that way.

The choices that a person in dependency cycles can make are usually the ones before they are in the presence of alcohol and the environments where it is consumed. Some people can just up and quit, generally it is easier if they are made before the actual presence and environments of consumption.

 

[Dancing David]

What we are saying is that the extreme addiction that occurs in some people but not in others is a disease. The only coping mechanism we know right now is for people with that disease to not drink at all.

That is the only way to break and dependancy cycle. For an abuse problem it may not be the long term solution, but it is always the start for a while.

Gambling is not a disease, it can become a behavioral disorder as well. Physical withdrawal is a complicating factor for alcoholics and sometimes a lethal one.

 

[Dancing David]

No no, you have a point. Disease really isn't the correct term but most people just don't know what to do about "genetic proclivity" or "predisposition". You wouldn't call a missing leg or some other condition which requires special attention a disease. Heck, I wouldn't even call dyslexia a disease!

So true, alcoholism is often a focus of medical treatment, it may or may not have a deisease component.

I prefer learning disability for dyslexia, although there may be a neurological basis.

 

[-Axiom-]

Addiction is a weakness of the mind.

 

[Zelenius]

I never understand why there is a persistent debate about addiction being a disease when the same debate is nonexistent about similar conditions.

Diabetes is a disease sometimes wholly, and almost always partly caused by behavior/social factors. No one seems to have a problem calling it a disease.

Diabetes, especially Type II Diabetes is closely associated with being overweight which is itself largely the result of overeating and inactivity. At least 75% of people with Type II Diabetes in the U.S are overweight. Genetics also play significant a role.

Type II Diabetes is described as being the result of insulin resistance, when the body's cells don't properly utilize insulin. However closely associated with overeating Type II Diabetes may be, overeating/food addiction is not "Diabetes". In contrast, the bad habit of regular over-consumption of alcohol is labeled a disease. In managing diabetes and its symptoms, no one calls the over-eating that has to be changed a "disease".

So what we have is that with Diabetes II, the bad habits closely associated with it are not the disease, with alcoholism, the bad habit is the disease.

Alcoholism often results in serious diseases, like liver cancer or throat cancer. However, neither liver cancer or throat cancer are "alcoholism". These serious diseases are caused by the "disease" of alcoholism(according to the disease model of alcoholism), whereas in the case of diabetes, the disease is caused by the non-disease of food addiction. Or maybe food addiction is a disease too? Is cigarette smoking a disease too?

I am in no way arguing against alcoholism being largely due to a genetic predisposition. I agree, it is caused in large part by genes and I have little problem with those who want to use "disease" instead of "genetic predisposition". If on the other hand by disease they mean "I can't do anything about it", then I disagree.

Perhaps the addictive personality that leads to alcohol, or cocaine addiction or sugar addiction is a disease. It seems there has been little attempt here to address my assertion that alcoholism is probably a form of self-medication for anxiety and/or depression with these anxiety issues perhaps being closely associated with the addictive personality(or being the same thing).

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Very well put ..

 

[littleroundman]

It seems there has been little attempt here to address my assertion that alcoholism is probably a form of self-medication for anxiety and/or depression with these anxiety issues perhaps being closely associated with the addictive personality(or being the same thing).

Because self medication via alcohol is undoubtedly true in SOME cases.

As I have previously pointed out, given that, in the US alone the numbers of people with alcohol related problems numbers upward of 10 MILLION, the chances of there being a singular definition, cause, predisposition or, indeed, outcome are negligible.

Anyone even loosely connected with the study/ies and treatment/s of alcohol and/or dependence/addiction and/or related problems could probably furnish case studies and personal observations to prove or disprove any one of the theories and anecdotal evidence presented here.

The fact we are dealing with extremely large numbers, in fact, multiple millions of "people" not robots indicates the chances of any "one" definition being "right" are next to none.

Self medication ? Undoubtedly, for SOME

Genetic predisposition ??? Yep again, for SOME.

In 10 MILLION PLUS people there is the potential for 10 MILLION plus explanations and causes.

Single "cause" or even single "cure" ???? Highly improbable.

 

[zerospeaks]

what a buzzkill, godofpie

 

[Skeptical Greg]

As I have previously pointed out, given that, in the US alone the numbers of people with alcohol related problems numbers upward of 10 MILLION, the chances of there being a singular definition, cause, predisposition or, indeed, outcome are negligible.

But the one common factor is that they all drink alcohol .. They all have the choice of not drinking, the degree of compulsion notwithstanding.

The root problem is behavioral .

(... just to head off the inevitable - I am aware of rare cases, where the individual is producing unusually high amounts of alcohol in the stomach or intestines.
It would seem that these individuals are not considered to be alcoholics; thus the inference that raising the glass to the lips is still the key factor in alcoholism ... )

 

[Zelenius]

(... just to head off the inevitable - I am aware of rare cases, where the individual is producing unusually high amounts of alcohol in the stomach or intestines.

Is there a name for this particular disorder? I've long wondered about this, how much alcohol is produced in the digestive tract, and if it was possible to get a little buzz from this? It seems this would result from consuming a lot of sugar or sugary drinks.

Wouldn't it be hilarious if this condition is called "alcoholism"?

 

[Light23]

I have a hard time believing it's a "disease" (depending on what you mean by that) when it can easily explained as a sort of chronic lack of self-discipline.

Not that this really changes anything. Whatever your want to call it, alcoholics still are going to have a hard time stopping themselves drinking, or limiting it to a small amount.

 

[Dinwar]

It seems there has been little attempt here to address my assertion that alcoholism is probably a form of self-medication for anxiety and/or depression with these anxiety issues perhaps being closely associated with the addictive personality(or being the same thing).

Might I suggest that part of the reason this has not been adequately addressed is that when I put the issue forward for consideration (granted, in other terms) the reaction was remarkably hostile?

Disease =def. -- A disposition (i) to undergo pathological processes that (ii) exists in an organism because of one or more disorders in that organism. <snip>

I'm curious as to why you cut the rest of the definition. That said, it's a good starting point.

Unfortunatley, the definition appears circular. When I look up "pathological processes" I find this:

pathological process - an organic process occurring as a consequence of disease

Looking up disorder we get

3. An ailment that affects the function of mind or body:

(I only included the medically relevant definition, which is why it's 3. The first two were dealing with order/disorder in terms of clean vs. cluttered rooms.)

Which means your definitions translates as "A disposition to undergo organic processes occurring as a consequence of a disease, which exist in an organisms because of one or more ailments that affect the function of the mind or body of the organism." Which means that a disease is that which has the symptoms of a disease. Perhaps there's a nuance or ten I'm not picking up, but that definition would never fly in any other scientific field, so I doubt that it would stand (as it is presented in this post) in medicine.

Obviously I'm missing something.

In 10 MILLION PLUS people there is the potential for 10 MILLION plus explanations and causes.

Yes, but it's not necessarily the case. The 1918 Influenza Pandemic killed between 20 and 40 million people, but it had the same cause for all of them (reference). The mere fact that a large number of people are affected by alcoholism tells us nothing about why, or whether or not it's a disease. All it tells us is that a lot of people are affected by alcoholism.

 

[Dancing David]

Addiction is a weakness of the mind.

Now that is the crap I hate, it is not a weakness, it is a pattern of unhealthy behaviors with frequent physical consequences. the people who become engaged in those behaviors may or may not have a biological predisposition, the one thing they need to do it avoid use.

 

[littleroundman]

The mere fact that a large number of people are affected by alcoholism tells us nothing about why, or whether or not it's a disease. All it tells us is that a lot of people are affected by alcoholism.

What it tells us is that there is the possibility for "alcoholism" to be a disease AND not a disease, genetic AND not genetic, behavioural AND not behavioural.

IOW, "alcoholism" is not just "alcoholism"

there is no single condition, only a convenient way for society to label a range of conditions related to alcohol.

The OP question was: "Is alcoholism a disease OR something else?"

I would argue the answer is "Alcoholism is a disease AND something else"