Iraq Vet Sues Michael Moore For Misleading Interview

[Mycroft]

So exactly how was this guy misrepresented in the movie?

And Claus is totally going to have to kill Moore's bodyguard.

An interesting thing about that link: there is a thumbnail picture of Michael Moore with the caption "Click image to enlarge."

Jesus, isn't he large enough already?!

 

[rocketdodger]

You are wrong about this, his statements, taken IN context were very offensive. Some suggested that he simply said “abort black babies”. Any many of his apologists tried to suggest that that was the issue he was being criticized for. He did not. What he did was to single out the color of a child’s skin as the factor that would predispose one to criminal activity. That is offensive, he is an @ss. Go back and reread it.

Daredelvis

It is offensive to suggest that he was implying correlation == causation, because he wasn't. He was basing his comments on statistics, which clearly show that if every black baby had been aborted in, say, the last 30 years, there would likely be a lower crime rate than otherwise. Do you dispute this?

 

[rocketdodger]

If someone says something about you which you don't like, and which you can't sue them for, you punch them?

If it is bad enough, certainly. There is nothing wrong with resorting to violence when the other party stops acting rationally.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

If it is bad enough, certainly. There is nothing wrong with resorting to violence when the other party stops acting rationally.

When you resort to violence merely over what another person has said, it you who are no longer behaving rationally.

 

[drkitten]

If it is bad enough, certainly. There is nothing wrong with resorting to violence when the other party stops acting rationally.

Aside from the minor problem that assaulting them is criminal conduct. Now you've been defamed and arrested. I don't see how that has improved your situation.

 

[rocketdodger]

When you resort to violence merely over what another person has said, it you who are no longer behaving rationally.

In the case of name calling, this is probably true.

But what about the case when someone's statements lead you to believe they are a genuine threat to your safety, and the courts can't do anything about it?

 

[rocketdodger]

Aside from the minor problem that assaulting them is criminal conduct. Now you've been defamed and arrested. I don't see how that has improved your situation.

Well I am not talking about the real world here, I am talking about my fantasy world, durrr.

My stance is that from an ethical point of view violence is perfectly justified. As for the practical view...

 

[ImaginalDisc]

In the case of name calling, this is probably true.

But what about the case when someone's statements lead you to believe they are a genuine threat to your safety, and the courts can't do anything about it?

Are you suggesting that Michael Moore presents a credible threat to the veteran, or are you desperately trying to justify your beligerence?

 

[Meffy]

Well I am not talking about the real world here, I am talking about my fantasy world, durrr.

Can we safely assume this of all your posts? The "durrr" seems to indicate that the fantasy-world setting is the default unless you say otherwise.

 

[Luke T.]

An interesting thing about that link: there is a thumbnail picture of Michael Moore with the caption "Click image to enlarge."

Jesus, isn't he large enough already?!

I read the link, and it doesn't do a good job of explaining exactly what the beef is.

In "Fahrenheit 9/11," the bandaged National Guardsman is shown laying on a gurney complaining that he feels like he's "being crushed in a vise. But they [the drugs] do a lot to help it and they take a lot of the edge off it."

His image appears seconds after Rep. Jim McDermott (D-Wash.) says, "You know, they say they're not leaving any veterans behind, but they're leaving all kinds of veterans behind."

Okay. The movie is an anti-Bush, anti-war movie, and Moore used a pro-war vet in it to garner sympathy and support for his anti-war position. If I was that vet, I'd be pissed, too. Just as I'm sure many of those who have died in the war would resent their deaths being used by the anti-war movement.

But I don't see how the vet is shown to "voice complaint about the war effort".

 

[rocketdodger]

Are you suggesting that Michael Moore presents a credible threat to the veteran, or are you desperately trying to justify your beligerence?

desperate attempt at justification.

I don't consider it beligerence, however, I consider it "preemptive self defense."

 

[rocketdodger]

Can we safely assume this of all your posts? The "durrr" seems to indicate that the fantasy-world setting is the default unless you say otherwise.

No, since whether or not the current setting is the fantasy world depends strongly on whether or not I catch myself being absurd, or even more so on whether or not you guys catch me being absurd.

It is safer to assume that when I start I am always in something that I consider reality but is probably a fantasy world, and only later in the thread is any sort of decision made as to exactly where I am for sure. In this case, I realized my absurdity and I am now in the real world but still pine for the simplicity of my fantasy world.

 

[corplinx]

We have a case of a man suing because he feels footage he contributed to NBC to be used for one reason was released to a film maker who used it for effect opposite the man intended. Lets forget about Michael Moore and the war for a minute.

People have interviews with the media distorted all the time. Its not new. They clip and cut and selectively pick to support their story. When the president of Glock USA was interviewed by 60 minutes 4 or 5 years ago, they cut his interview up to make it seem like he supported ballistic fingerprinting.

I doubt this man's case will go anywhere. If you can't sue the press for distorting you, how can you sue a film maker for distorting it?

 

[Meffy]

I can relate to pining. Carry on.

 

[jj]

If you can't sue the press for distorting you, how can you sue a film maker for distorting it?

When the film-maker is not on the "right side" of the government? Perhaps more easily than you imagine.

 

[Ziggurat]

If you can't sue the press for distorting you, how can you sue a film maker for distorting it?

Well, actually, you CAN do that, and you can even win. The problem is that distortion is not, in and of itself, sufficient grounds for winning. You need something like defamation, which can result from distorting what you said, but it isn't automatic (not all distortions rise to the level of defamation, or slander, or whatever), and the burden of proof on the complainant is considerable.

 

[corplinx]

When the film-maker is not on the "right side" of the government? Perhaps more easily than you imagine.

Watch out JJ, those black helicoptors are coming for you now.

 

[Kaylee]

If you'll notice, issues of libel and slander are notoriously difficult to pursue due to free speech and free press.

If people didn't have the right to be dishonest, would we still be plagued with 9/11 conspiracy theories, creationism, "psychics," Pat Robertson, homeopathy, etc? All of those rely on dishonesty from some and gullibility from others.

People have the right to express their opinions, even if they are unpopular, and they also have freedom of religion. Unfortunately the bad guys use those rights to get away with lying.

To the best of my knowledge its not illegal to knowingly make up false documents with the intention to deceive people. (They're are some exceptions -- e.g. counterfeit currency.) At best its a civil matter if you can prove damages. If it could be made a crime also -- it would probably be easier to make the conspiracists accountable for their actions.

 

[Tony]

There is nothing wrong with resorting to violence when the other party stops acting rationally.

Where is an irony meter when you need one?

 

[WildCat]

I very much doubt NBC didn't get a release form, if they did then he hasn't got a leg to stand on since he has already given up his rights to control how it is used.

Interesting choice of words to use about a double amputee...