Iran and the Nazis

Toontown said:
Center of Nazi studies, holocaust denial, and the study of various methods of eliminating the state of Israel is...Iran.

At what point did political correctness cross the line into denialism?
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Iran doesn't hate Israel and Jews because Iran is sympathetic towards Neo-Naziism, they're sympathetic towards Neo-Naziism because they hate Israel and Jews.

In other words, this is not a case of Iran inheriting and expanding on an ideology, but them looking for current allies who share similar goals and attitudes.
 
Cleon said:
The country's been called "Iran" by the locals for literally centuries. The Shah's decision to change the name was purely nationalistic; they wanted Iran to be known by the name used by Iranians, not by the name used by the west (Persia).
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Right. The love affair between Iran and Nazi Germany had nothing to do with it.:rolleyes:

“Germany was our age-old and natural ally, Love of Germany was synonymous with love for Iran. The sound of German officers' footsteps was heard on the shores of the Nile. Swastika flags were flying from the outskirts of Moscow to the peaks of the Caucasus Mts. Iranian patriots eagerly awaited the arrival of their old allies. My friend and I would spin tales about the grandeur of the superior race. We considered Germany the chosen representative of this race in Europe and Iran its representative in Asia. The right to life and role was ours. Others had no choice but submission and slavery. We discarded the old maps and remade Iran into a country larger than what it was in Achaemenian times.”

-Reza Shah


Halcyon days, those. Does the Iranian regime dream of resurrecting them?
 
Toontown said:
Right. The love affair between Iran and Nazi Germany had nothing to do with it.:rolleyes:
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Not unless you think Hitler had a time machine.

“Germany was our age-old and natural ally, Love of Germany was synonymous with love for Iran. The sound of German officers' footsteps was heard on the shores of the Nile. Swastika flags were flying from the outskirts of Moscow to the peaks of the Caucasus Mts. Iranian patriots eagerly awaited the arrival of their old allies. My friend and I would spin tales about the grandeur of the superior race. We considered Germany the chosen representative of this race in Europe and Iran its representative in Asia. The right to life and role was ours. Others had no choice but submission and slavery. We discarded the old maps and remade Iran into a country larger than what it was in Achaemenian times.”

-Reza Shah
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That quote is not from the Shah.

This blog, while convenient for your POV, may not be the most accurate source on Iranian history.
 
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ANTPogo said:
Iran doesn't hate Israel and Jews because Iran is sympathetic towards Neo-Naziism, they're sympathetic towards Neo-Naziism because they hate Israel and Jews.

In other words, this is not a case of Iran inheriting and expanding on an ideology, but them looking for current allies who share similar goals and attitudes.
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This.
 
HansMustermann said:
And more uninformed pseudo-historical BS from Toontown...

Both Iran and Aryan are actually borrowed from Iran/Persia in the first place. Inscription identifying the old language of the Persians as Ariya are as old as Darius and Xerxes. Even the first mentions in Europe are as far back as Herodotus, who remarks, "These Medes were called anciently by all people Arians." The term Iran is attested in inscriptions going at least as far back as the Sassanid dynasty. Even to the Romans their province was known as Arianus.

That's thousands of years before the Nazis or even any form of German nationalism, lemming. Those people were calling themselves Arians or Iranians waay back when we here in northern Europe were a bunch of illiterate hunter-gatherers that nobody took seriously except as a border threat or potential auxilia soldiers.
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Bring up something HansMustermann doesn't want brought to light, get called a "lemming". All in a day's work.:D

Hans, your domineering hostility rendered you useful as a poster boy for commie domineering hostility in the commie thread. Not sure it's so useful here. I wasn't trying to prove that Nazis are hostile and domineering. That's common knowledge.
 
Toontown said:
Right. The love affair between Iran and Nazi Germany had nothing to do with it.:rolleyes:

“Germany was our age-old and natural ally, Love of Germany was synonymous with love for Iran. The sound of German officers' footsteps was heard on the shores of the Nile. Swastika flags were flying from the outskirts of Moscow to the peaks of the Caucasus Mts. Iranian patriots eagerly awaited the arrival of their old allies. My friend and I would spin tales about the grandeur of the superior race. We considered Germany the chosen representative of this race in Europe and Iran its representative in Asia. The right to life and role was ours. Others had no choice but submission and slavery. We discarded the old maps and remade Iran into a country larger than what it was in Achaemenian times.”

-Reza Shah


Halcyon days, those. Does the Iranian regime dream of resurrecting them?
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Do you even bother to research these quotes for yourself? Those words were not spoken by Reza Shah, but by Mohammad Bahmanbeigi, originally quoted in Paul Sprachman's linguistic study "Language and Culture in Persian."

EDIT: Curse you, Cleon! That's twice in the same thread!
 
Toontown said:
Iranians went all weak-kneed over the Nazis.
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You should read about the Italian Jewish fascists who loved and supported Mussolini, right up until they had to start packing.

Even some German Jews showed support for Hitler when he was first elected. The National Vanguard, a Jewish right-wing group, agreed with some of Hitler's criticism of the Jews and said so in a letter to him.
 
Thunder said:
You should read about the Italian Jewish fascists who loved and supported Mussolini, right up until they had to start packing.

Even some German Jews showed support for Hitler when he was first elected. The National Vanguard, a Jewish right-wing group, agreed with some of Hitler's criticism of the Jews and said so in a letter to him.
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But I'm not talking about them. They're all dead now.

The Nazi-studying, holocaust-denying, Jew-hating Iranians' infatuation with racist fascism continues to the present day.
 
Well. Talking to you people has been a time-consuming, nit-picking headache, but there are only 24 hours in a day.

Bye now. If you need any help whitewashing Islamofascists, uh...don't call me. I'll call you.
 
Toontown said:
You might want to look at Cleon's link. Only the name changed. The Iranian infatuation with racist fascism remained intact.

Iranians went all weak-kneed over the Nazis.
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Okay, first of all, the Iranian "infatuation" with racist fascism during the reigns of Reza Shah Pahlavi and his son Reza Mohammed had nothing to do with Islam, or even Islamism. It was a purely nationalist and ethnic movement, focusing solely on the supremacy of Iranians, not as Muslims but as Iranians. And more specifically, on the Farsi-speaking Persian Iranians. The non-Persian minorities in Iran were considered subhuman, no matter how devout they were when it came to Islam. Since the fall of the Shah, Iranian historical scholarship has actually shifted away from the original "we're all Aryans alike!" appeal that Hitler's Naziism had for Persian intellectuals, and focused more on a separate Fars/Persian ethnic supremacy, almost completely de-linked from the old Nazi conception of Aryanism.

Even now, the Islamic Republic of Iran continues these nationalist and racist policies, with Farsi still the only language of the country in practice, and Fars/Persians being the utterly dominant ethnicity and all others being suppressed, without regard whatsoever to the devoutness or lack thereof to even their own Shi'ite brand of Islam.

Second, the current "infatuation" in Iran with Neo-Naziism and Holocaust Denial, unlike the infatuation of the 30's and 40's, isn't actually tied to the modern Nazi movement's Aryan supremacy theories (as noted above, Iran has shifted its own ethnic ideology away from that). Instead, it's focused almost entirely on the modern Neo-Nazi hatred of Jews, and that's the sole ideological link that binds the two together.
 
There was also pro-Hitler sentiment in lots of British colonies, like in India. Just as in Iran, much of this was not because of anti-semitism, but rather because people saw England as colonial oppressors and saw Hitler as anti-England.

Also where Hitler's racial messages may have resonated with Iranians, this is probably more because of how racist Iranians define themselves relative to the surrounding peoples (e.g. Arabs) rather than how they define themselves as muslims in contradistinction to other religions. So the 'Islamofascist' label might not be warranted here.
 
Toontown said:
Bring up something HansMustermann doesn't want brought to light, get called a "lemming". All in a day's work.:D
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Right. It can't have anything to do with it being a stupidity that blames a name used since 2500 years ago on the Nazis.

Toontown said:
Hans, your domineering hostility rendered you useful as a poster boy for commie domineering hostility in the commie thread. Not sure it's so useful here. I wasn't trying to prove that Nazis are hostile and domineering. That's common knowledge.
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Ah, right. I would have been right surprised if you didn't use the same broken logic as always. You still doing that kind of BS instead of actually supporting your claims seems to be a constant of the universe.
 
Toontown said:
Well. Talking to you people has been a time-consuming, nit-picking headache, but there are only 24 hours in a day.

Bye now. If you need any help whitewashing Islamofascists, uh...don't call me. I'll call you.
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awwww...... :(
 
HansMustermann said:
Right. It can't have anything to do with it being a stupidity that blames a name used since 2500 years ago on the Nazis.
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Correct. It doesn't have anything to do with blaming a name on the Nazis. It has to do with the ongoing influence of Nazism among the Iranians, as evidenced by the Nazi studies and the Iranian president's holocaust denial and Jew-elimination advocacy. Not to mention the brutal demonstration suppression and naziesque kangaroo court system.

And of course the list of similarities between today's Iran and Nazi Germany could go on. However, there are still only 24 hours in a day.

HansMustermann said:
Ah, right. I would have been right surprised if you didn't use the same broken logic as always. You still doing that kind of BS instead of actually supporting your claims seems to be a constant of the universe.
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All wrong. I would have been right surprised it you hadn't used the same tired old tactic as always, resorting to hostile domineering rhetoric in a lame attempt to make it look like you've refuted my position (when in fact you've done nothing but ineffectively nitpicked on minor details), and are now triumphantly gloating over your ersatz "victory". You still doing that BS instead of actually refuting my position seems to be the real universal constant.
 
Toontown said:
Correct. It doesn't have anything to do with blaming a name on the Nazis. It has to do with the ongoing influence of Nazism among the Iranians, as evidenced by the Nazi studies and the Iranian president's holocaust denial and Jew-elimination advocacy.
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30 years after the Revolution, tens of thousands of Jews still live in Iran.

And the land does not have swastikas all over. That's some Nazi influence.
 
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