iPhone 5

[Dan O.]

5 1/2 years ago, Apple redefined the smart phone. Now another company is copying their work and happens to be selling more phones. That doesn't make the other company or their phones better. It's just the reality of the market place when they can save a boatload in research and development and therefore sell their phones for less.

 

[This is The End]

You do realize that Apple copied other peoples work first right?

 

[Darat]

5 1/2 years ago, Apple redefined the smart phone. Now another company is copying their work and happens to be selling more phones. That doesn't make the other company or their phones better. It's just the reality of the market place when they can save a boatload in research and development and therefore sell their phones for less.

So I take it all this was copied from Apple:



And they haven't copied all of this:







Sense of humour failure test.

 

[Dan O.]

So I take it all this was copied from Apple:



And they haven't copied all of this:







Sense of humour failure test.

Hold on to those and compare them to what sticks in a couple of years.

 

[carlitos]

Test passed.

 

[Dan O.]

Test passed.

Did it?

 

[funk de fino]

Yeah I'm beginning to think it is just better to ignore it when people try to find which metric they can use to feel that Apple is still the leader in smartphones.

I suppose if I was an Apple fan I would be in denial as well.

But I would probably also be happy that they had a few good years. It was surely unexpected to anyone familiar with Apple history.

You're the one that made up stuff, made assumptions and brought nothing to the table when making claims about numbers sold.

Also made errors in models sold by Apple. You just seem to blindly blank out any errors you make while ignoring date provided.

You have indeed made claims and failed to back any of them up. Thats the point. All I have been looking at is what the sales figures are for the phones. You're more interested in dribbling at the "fanboys"

 

[This is The End]

You're the one that made up stuff, made assumptions and brought nothing to the table when making claims about numbers sold.

Also made errors in models sold by Apple. You just seem to blindly blank out any errors you make while ignoring date provided.

You have indeed made claims and failed to back any of them up. Thats the point. All I have been looking at is what the sales figures are for the phones. You're more interested in dribbling at the "fanboys"

By all means, feel free to link to these posts.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

You're the one that made up stuff, made assumptions and brought nothing to the table when making claims about numbers sold.

Also made errors in models sold by Apple. You just seem to blindly blank out any errors you make while ignoring date provided.

You have indeed made claims and failed to back any of them up. Thats the point. All I have been looking at is what the sales figures are for the phones. You're more interested in dribbling at the "fanboys"

By all means, feel free to link to these posts.

Post 500, for starters. I think that covers all those things:

Apple iPhone is the make, the # is the model. Pretty hilarious you want us to buy that so you can continue to use that lie. Even if you convinced someone of that, then that would mean that the Samsung Galaxy S2, S2 Skyrocket, and S3 would count as one phone as well!! Apple would still be losing.

OK so maybe they stopped selling the 3GS since the last time you tried this spin.

The top 3 Samsung phones are absolutely destroying the top 3 Apple Phones. You can't even come up with convincing spin to make it not so. Also, the gap is widening.

 

[This is The End]

Post 500, for starters. I think that covers all those things:

Notice how TheL8Elvis conveniently doesn't highlight the 2nd half of the sentence that explains the 3GS being included!

The last time TheL8Elvis tried the "Oh well if iPhone is considered only 1 phone then Apple is still winning" nonsense, the 3GS was still officially for sale!

I'm pretty sure both funk de fino and TheL8Elvis know that I already explained that. Yet they both still bring it up?? Clearly grasping at strawmen.

Too bad Apple is still losing whether or not you remove the 3GS and the Galaxy S from the classic "Just 1 phone" comparison.

Apples time in the sun for smartphones is over, there is just no way for them to dominate anymore. They are only going to lose more and more market-share.

Two years from now it will be the same with their tablet market-share.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Notice how TheL8Elvis conveniently doesn't highlight the 2nd half of the sentence that explains the 3GS being included!

The last time TheL8Elvis tried the "Oh well if iPhone is considered only 1 phone then Apple is still winning" nonsense, the 3GS was still officially for sale!

I'm pretty sure both funk de fino and TheL8Elvis know that I already explained that. Yet they both still bring it up?? Clearly grasping at strawmen.

Too bad Apple is still losing whether or not you remove the 3GS and the Galaxy S from the classic "Just 1 phone" comparison.

Apples time in the sun for smartphones is over, there is just no way for them to dominate anymore. They are only going to lose more and more market-share.

Two years from now it will be the same with their tablet market-share.

Honda sells more than Rolls Royce, therefor they are winning.

In any case, you still haven't provided any evidence for your claim:

The top 3 Samsung phones are absolutely destroying the top 3 Apple Phones.

 

[This is The End]

Honda sells more than Rolls Royce, therefor they are winning.

Is that seriously all you have left? That's even assuming Apple is better than Samsung. You're making quite a leap there. I doubt you are going to distract many people with that...

In any case, you still haven't provided any evidence for your claim:

This has been explained multiple times

Do you and funk de fino think that JREF members are stupid or something.


You made the claim that if you count all the iPhones as "1 phone" that it is on top.

As I said, I would expect a company that makes 25+ models of smartphones to outsell a company that makes 1 model. It is not particularly surprising or impressive.

It is clearly TheL8Elvis's claim that if you do a "1 phone" vs "1 phone" comparison that Apple would be selling more. It's your claim, you have to back it up. Even if it were true, which it isn't, it would really just be a sad justification. Clearly you are partial to Apple and are just digging for a metric that makes you feel better.

All I did was point out that if you are counting the iPhone as "1 phone" then you have to count the Samsung Galaxy S line of phones as "1 phone" as well.

iPhone 3GS = Galaxy S

iPhone 4 = Galaxy S II
iPhone 4S = Galaxy S II Skyrocket
iPhone 5 = Galaxy S III

Telling you what numbers you need to find to back up your claim doesn't suddenly make it my claim!!

Then you both accuse me of making the claim and not backing it up. Even though I just explained that it wasn't my claim a few posts ago.

I'm sorry but that is not only not how it works here at the JREF, no one is going to fall for such nonsense.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Is that seriously all you have left? That's even assuming Apple is better than Samsung. You're making quite a leap there. I doubt you are going to distract many people with that...

This has been explained multiple times

Do you and funk de fino think that JREF members are stupid or something.

No, I feel confident they can all see what your doing.

You made the claim that if you count all the iPhones as "1 phone" that it is on top.

It is clearly TheL8Elvis's claim that if you do a "1 phone" vs "1 phone" comparison that Apple would be selling more. It's your claim, you have to back it up. Even if it were true, which it isn't, it would really just be a sad justification. Clearly you are partial to Apple and are just digging for a metric that makes you feel better.

If it was clearly my claim, you would be able to quote it, instead of continuing to claim these are all 'things everybody knows'.

My claim was that I expected a company who makes that makes 25+ models of smartphones to outsell a company that makes 1 model.

And they do.

Whatever else you infer from that comes from your own imagination.

All I did was point out that if you are counting the iPhone as "1 phone" then you have to count the Samsung Galaxy S line of phones as "1 phone" as well.

iPhone 3GS = Galaxy S

iPhone 4 = Galaxy S II
iPhone 4S = Galaxy S II Skyrocket
iPhone 5 = Galaxy S III

Telling you what numbers you need to find to back up your claim doesn't suddenly make it my claim!!

You made quite a positive claim in post 500

The top 3 Samsung phones are absolutely destroying the top 3 Apple Phones. You can't even come up with convincing spin to make it not so. Also, the gap is widening.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS IS YOUR CLAIM

Then you both accuse me of making the claim and not backing it up. Even though I just explained that it wasn't my claim a few posts ago.

I'm sorry but that is not only not how it works here at the JREF, no one is going to fall for such nonsense.

I am asking you to back up the claim you made, that I have quoted multiple times. That, among other things, is what you have been called out for dodging.

Go ahead, dodge again.

 

[This is The End]

Seriously?

You are disavowing the claim that if you compare just the "one iPhone" to one Samsung phone that Apple would be selling more?

Not only that but you are saying you never made that claim?

That you meant something else entirely when you said that the only reason Samsung is selling lots of phones is because "they have 25 PLUS phones and Apple only has 1".

I'm sooooo sure that you were only pointing out the obvious, that a company that has "25 PLUS phones" would have a better chance of selling more phones than a company that only has 1 phone (or 3 if you aren't in Apple fanboy parallel zone).

There's absolutely no way you were trying to imply that if we did a 1 to 1 comparison that Apple would be selling more.... http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif And that you just waited until 2 weeks after it was called out to tell us that....

I assume since you didn't make that claim we won't be hearing it from you again in the future either? We can only hope. Because an argument that doesn't even turn out to be true is a sad argument indeed.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Seriously?

You are disavowing the claim that if you compare just the "one iPhone" to one Samsung phone that Apple would be selling more?

Not only that but you are saying you never made that claim?

That you meant something else entirely when you said that the only reason Samsung is selling lots of phones is because "they have 25 PLUS phones and Apple only has 1".

I'm sooooo sure that you were only pointing out the obvious, that a company that has "25 PLUS phones" would have a better chance of selling more phones than a company that only has 1 phone (or 3 if you aren't in Apple fanboy parallel zone).

There's absolutely no way you were trying to imply that if we did a 1 to 1 comparison that Apple would be selling more.... http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif And that you just waited until 2 weeks after it was called out to tell us that....

I assume since you didn't make that claim we won't be hearing it from you again in the future either? We can only hope. Because an argument that doesn't even turn out to be true is a sad argument indeed.

In your continued obsession to keep harping on a claim I didn't actually make, you neglected to address the claim you did actually make from post 500:

The top 3 Samsung phones are absolutely destroying the top 3 Apple Phones. You can't even come up with convincing spin to make it not so. Also, the gap is widening.

Any evidence to back that up ?

 

[funk de fino]

By all means, feel free to link to these posts.

Ok, as well as the stuff posted by TheL8Elvis.

Who posted this?

Oh please. Unless you have actual shipped vs sold numbers for both companies, we can just assume it is relatively the same for Apple as well.

Lets see what weasel words can be used to stonewall that one.

I certainly do not think the JREF members are stupid. I think they can see you made a clear claim and have completely failed to support it. They can probably see that I have even posted some figures that may have helped you with your claim. But they can also see you have failed to bring anything but assumptions and unsupported claims.

I really dont care either way who is winning the smartphone sales figures. I just like to see folks bring facts to back up their claims. You have spectularly failed to do that so far and it should be relatively simple.

 

[This is The End]

Oh please. Unless you have actual shipped vs sold numbers for both companies, we can just assume it is relatively the same for Apple as well.

Lets see what weasel words can be used to stonewall that one.

You seriously have to be just kidding now right?

Are you completely new to logic?

Aside from it being a response to a claim, it is itself not a claim at all, it is merely logic. It even contains the word "relatively".

If we have no evidence that either company has an extraordinary system of shipping for demand then we can safely assume that both companies would have a similar shipped vs sold ratio to correspond with their supply and demand forecasts.

If you think that is a claim, then you are either very confused about logic or you are just grasping at straws.


What's very ironic here is that you just pulled this with the "oh but Apple is only one phone!" claim!


Someone made the "oh but Apple is only one phone" claim. I debunked it. I even provided the correct numbers that would be needed for it to be true.

You then lied and said it was originally my claim!!


Someone made the "oh but those are shipped vs sold numbers in that article" claim. I debunked it and pointed out that the article was, in fact, shipped versus shipped. I even pre-emted an "oh but Apple has a different shipped/sold ratio than Samsug", with the logic for why both companies probably have relatively similar shipped/sold ratio.

You then lied and said it was originally my claim!

So the exact same response applies to you that applies to TheL8Elvis:

In your continued obsession to keep harping on a claim I didn't actually make, you neglected to address the claim you did actually make from post 500:


Any evidence to back that up ?

It seems to be an interesting strategy:

A: Make a claim without evidence.
B: Someone points that out that not only do you have no evidence, but the claim is likely wrong.
C: Accuse that someone of not providing the evidence, so therefore A must be correct!!


Here at the JREF we ask people to back up their claims. We're not going to do your work for you. That strategy seems like the natural response to try, a second time, to get someone too do your work for you. Nice try, but I'm not falling for it.

I like TheL8Elvis's idea better. Just disavow that you ever made the claim in the first place! Because that means that the next time someone actually does try the old "oh well Apple is just 1 phone" nonsense then TheL8Elvis should be right there with us to debunk it.

 

[This is The End]

Google is almost ready to launch a new version of Maps on iPhone.

http://www.informationweek.com/mobi...pple-cant-deny-google-maps-on-iphon/240142256

Google has nearly completed work on a new version of Google Maps for the iPhone. Citing sources familiar with Google's plans, The Wall Street Journal reported that Google is now field testing the app outside of Google. It should soon be ready for Google to submit to Apple for approval.

Apple booted Google Maps from the iPhone, iPad and iPod Touch earlier this year with the introduction of iOS 6. Google Maps was a part of iOS from the very first iPhone through September of this year -- a partnership that lasted more than five years. But Apple has been divorcing itself from Google's goods and services ever since the two began battling head-to-head with competing smartphone platforms.

Apple replaced Google Maps with its own mapping product. Embarrassingly for Apple, Apple Maps has been a complete failure.

<snip>

What everyone wants to know, of course, is whether or not Apple will approve the new Google Maps.

<snip>

It would make Apple look petty and pathetic in the eyes of many.

Apple can't say no.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

You seriously have to be just kidding now right?

Are you completely new to logic?

Aside from it being a response to a claim, it is itself not a claim at all, it is merely logic. It even contains the word "relatively".

If we have no evidence that either company has an extraordinary system of shipping for demand then we can safely assume that both companies would have a similar shipped vs sold ratio to correspond with their supply and demand forecasts.

If you think that is a claim, then you are either very confused about logic or you are just grasping at straws.

What's very ironic here is that you just pulled this with the "oh but Apple is only one phone!" claim!

Someone made the "oh but Apple is only one phone" claim. I debunked it. I even provided the correct numbers that would be needed for it to be true.

You then lied and said it was originally my claim!!


Someone made the "oh but those are shipped vs sold numbers in that article" claim. I debunked it and pointed out that the article was, in fact, shipped versus shipped. I even pre-emted an "oh but Apple has a different shipped/sold ratio than Samsug", with the logic for why both companies probably have relatively similar shipped/sold ratio.

How exactly did you debunk it. It was pointed out to you that the article was wrong, because apple releases sales numbers, not shipped numbers:

And the point you never seem to have understood is that apple doesn't release shipped numbers. It release sales numbers.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/07/24Apple-Reports-Third-Quarter-Results.html
...
The Company sold 26.0 million iPhones in the quarter, representing 28 percent unit growth over the year-ago quarter. Apple sold 17.0 million iPads during the quarter, an 84 percent unit increase over the year-ago quarter. The Company sold 4.0 million Macs during the quarter, a two percent unit increase over the year-ago quarter. Apple sold 6.8 million iPods, a 10 percent unit decline from the year-ago quarter.
...

So much for the accuracy of your article. No signs of the weasel word shipped ...

So, please explain again how you 'debunked' the fact that the article was wrong when it claimed shipped numbers ?

You then lied and said it was originally my claim!

So the exact same response applies to you that applies to TheL8Elvis:

It seems to be an interesting strategy:

A: Make a claim without evidence.
B: Someone points that out that not only do you have no evidence, but the claim is likely wrong.
C: Accuse that someone of not providing the evidence, so therefore A must be correct!!

You seem to think I did "A":

Are you serious?? I'm the one disputing TheL8Elvis's claim that if you only count the iPhones as 1 phone that they are the top seller. How is it my claim??

Can you please go ahead and quote where I made that claim ? Pretty please ? Which post ?

Here at the JREF we ask people to back up their claims. We're not going to do your work for you. That strategy seems like the natural response to try, a second time, to get someone too do your work for you. Nice try, but I'm not falling for it.

Exactly. Here is your claim:

It's not even close. s2/s2 s/s3 are absolutely destroying the iphone 4/4s/5. If you have numbers that show otherwise I would love to see them.

I hilited it for you. Here you made it again:

The top 3 Samsung phones are absolutely destroying the top 3 Apple Phones. You can't even come up with convincing spin to make it not so. Also, the gap is widening.

I like TheL8Elvis's idea better. Just disavow that you ever made the claim in the first place! Because that means that the next time someone actually does try the old "oh well Apple is just 1 phone" nonsense then TheL8Elvis should be right there with us to debunk it.

I hilited exactly what you are doing. I'm betting that if you respond, you won't quote my claim or provide evidence for your claims. Let's see ....

 

[funk de fino]

Google is almost ready to launch a new version of Maps on iPhone.

http://www.informationweek.com/mobi...pple-cant-deny-google-maps-on-iphon/240142256

Thank god