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iPad Reactions

carlitos said:
I really just use computing devices the way they are designed. Call me a simpleton.
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You're not the only one. I've rooted Android devices, installed alternative Android versions, etc. but I sure don't want to if I don't have to. That's why I've been going with the Nexus line of devices (just got my 5 yesterday after finding out how much the 6 would cost) - plain, up-to-date Android that I don't need to tweak, and if I ever do then there's probably "an app for that." :)
 
carlitos said:
I really just use computing devices the way they are designed.
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There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's a bit odd that you need to apologise for using a device the way it was intended/designed.

When I use my iPod (my only apple device) I use it exactly as designed (it plays music).

My linux machine has been designed for me to hack around and change stuff, so I tend to do that with my linux machine.

My samsung phone I also just use as intended. No need for me (currently) to root or jailbreak it.
 
DarthFishy said:
There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's a bit odd that you need to apologise for using a device the way it was intended/designed.

When I use my iPod (my only apple device) I use it exactly as designed (it plays music).

My linux machine has been designed for me to hack around and change stuff, so I tend to do that with my linux machine.

My samsung phone I also just use as intended. No need for me (currently) to root or jailbreak it.
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Android has been designed to be able to hack around and change stuff. It is, in fact, a descendant of Linux and uses a Linux kernel.

Manufacturers (and, more likely, carriers) may put restrictions in place, but those are intended to discourage tinkering as much to preserve profit areas and reduce customer complaints than because it is the way the device was "intended" to be used.

Nobody is forced to modify their Android devices on their own, and I don't disparage those who choose not to. The important distinction, to me, is that the option exists. I can improve my device if I choose to, as opposed to having no choice.

You say you have no need to root your Samsung "currently". Isn't the knowledge that you can should the need or desire arise kind of reassuring?
 
quadraginta said:
Android has been designed to be able to hack around and change stuff. It is, in fact, a descendant of Linux and uses a Linux kernel.

Manufacturers (and, more likely, carriers) may put restrictions in place, but those are intended to discourage tinkering as much to preserve profit areas and reduce customer complaints than because it is the way the device was "intended" to be used.

Nobody is forced to modify their Android devices on their own, and I don't disparage those who choose not to. The important distinction, to me, is that the option exists. I can improve my device if I choose to, as opposed to having no choice.

You say you have no need to root your Samsung "currently". Isn't the knowledge that you can should the need or desire arise kind of reassuring?
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Oh I agree.

My comment was meant more to refer to an ideal situation. A properly designed device should work as is.

But the capability (and the legality) to change stuff as I see fit is very usefeul.
 
DarthFishy said:
Oh I agree.

My comment was meant more to refer to an ideal situation. A properly designed device should work as is.

But the capability (and the legality) to change stuff as I see fit is very usefeul.
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As far as I can see, it is always legal to change a device you bought as you see fit.

There also seem to be always persons who provide the capability to those who don't have it.

The questions that remains are: 1) Is the manufacturer required to allow the capability? 2) Is the manufacturer liable for devices that have been changed beyond a manufacturer set margin? And are the margins set by current manufacturers reasonable and legal?
 
I want to get a larger tablet - my Nexus 7 is great, have much use but would appreciate a larger screen for streaming Kodi ro Twitch. The new Nexus 9 looks tempting (yes, fanboi) but the 4:3 ratio has me a bit puzzled. Can you iPad folks give me a heads up on how you find video on a 4:3?
 
malicus said:
I want to get a larger tablet - my Nexus 7 is great, have much use but would appreciate a larger screen for streaming Kodi ro Twitch. The new Nexus 9 looks tempting (yes, fanboi) but the 4:3 ratio has me a bit puzzled. Can you iPad folks give me a heads up on how you find video on a 4:3?
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I watch video letterboxed (you can tap on the screen for the video to fill the whole screen but of course it will be cropped) and like it just fine.

I prefer the 4:3 overall because of how web pages look on it. I think they look a little goofy on a widescreen tablet.
 
elgarak said:
As far as I can see, it is always legal to change a device you bought as you see fit.

There also seem to be always persons who provide the capability to those who don't have it.

The questions that remains are: 1) Is the manufacturer required to allow the capability? 2) Is the manufacturer liable for devices that have been changed beyond a manufacturer set margin? And are the margins set by current manufacturers reasonable and legal?
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Good points.

There are certain things once can't do with things one buys, but they are generally not devices. (For example, I cannot, by law, make a back up copy of a DVD that I have legally bought).

Some interesting points (admittedly from Wikipedia) about jailbreaking:

The jailbreaking of smartphones continues to be legal "where circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of enabling interoperability of [lawfully obtained software] applications with computer programs on the telephone handset." However, the U.S. Copyright office refused to extend this exemption to tablets, such as iPads, arguing that the term "tablets" is broad and ill-defined, and an exemption to this class of devices could have unintended side effects.[51][52][53] The Copyright Office also renewed the 2010 exemption for unofficially unlocking phones to use them on unapproved carriers, but restricted this exemption to phones purchased before January 26, 2013.[52]
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So, yes it is legal, barely. Also interesting:

In their ruling, the Library of Congress affirmed on July 26, 2010 that jailbreaking is exempt from DMCA rules with respect to circumventing digital locks. DMCA exemptions must be reviewed and renewed every three years or else they expire.
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Jailbreaking might not remain exempt.

In terms of your other questions:

1) I don't feel a manufacturer should be legally required to provide this capability. Though it would be nice if they did.
2) I also don't feel a manufacturer should be liable for any changes made. Though where to draw the line is the question. If I download a legal piece of software and for example, a bug in the OS bricks the phone, the manufacturer should be liable.

Interesting topic though...
 
kajata said:
I watch video letterboxed (you can tap on the screen for the video to fill the whole screen but of course it will be cropped) and like it just fine.

I prefer the 4:3 overall because of how web pages look on it. I think they look a little goofy on a widescreen tablet.
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Seconded.
 
malicus said:
I want to get a larger tablet - my Nexus 7 is great, have much use but would appreciate a larger screen for streaming Kodi ro Twitch. The new Nexus 9 looks tempting (yes, fanboi) but the 4:3 ratio has me a bit puzzled. Can you iPad folks give me a heads up on how you find video on a 4:3?
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Honestly, I don't watch much video on my iPad aside from possibly youtube videos, so it's not an issue for me.
 
elgarak said:
As far as I can see, it is always legal to change a device you bought as you see fit.

There also seem to be always persons who provide the capability to those who don't have it.

The questions that remains are: 1) Is the manufacturer required to allow the capability? 2) Is the manufacturer liable for devices that have been changed beyond a manufacturer set margin? And are the margins set by current manufacturers reasonable and legal?
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I'm not sure why those are questions which remain. Aside from yourself who has asked them?

1) Of course not. Caveat emptor.

2a) See 1).

2b)Is that one question or two? Legal? Caveat emptor. Reasonable? Define reasonable.
 
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TheL8Elvis said:
quadraginta said:
How do you feel about the problem of being unable to revert to an earlier version of iOS when the update doesn't work properly with an aging device?
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When does this happen ?
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These were the examples which prompted my response.

anglolawyer said:
If you upgrade an old iPad from OS 7 to OS 8 you will regret it. It really screwed mine. I bought a new one.
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Mumbles said:
Honestly, that upgrade screwed up my iPhone 5S royally - as in, it resets once every few minutes. I didn't dare to update my iPad after that - and luckily, I have Skype, so I can still make and receive calls.

But yeah, that's a real problem for me.

<snip>
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TheL8Elvis said:
quadraginta said:
These were the examples which prompted my response.
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Those are called "anecdotes."
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Yes. Those two "anecdotes" were examples of what prompted my response. I was responding to those two "anecdotes".

What's your point? Are you suggesting that they can't be examples because they are "anecdotes"? If so, would you like to explain why?

In those cases, worst case scenario is you re-install the OS and it works properly. There is no need to revert to an older version.
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Are you certain this is true? Is it always true? Was it true in the case of either or both of the two "anecdotes"?

Are you suggesting that anglolawyer and mumbles were lying about their experience in their "anecdotes"?

Are there no instances where people have had their Apple devices updated only to find that the newer version didn't work well on their older device? Because it was a new and different version, not because it needed to be re-installed?

If they did need to, can they re-install an older version themselves, one which did work well, to correct the problem?
 
quadraginta said:
Yes. Those two "anecdotes" were examples of what prompted my response. I was responding to those two "anecdotes".

What's your point? Are you suggesting that they can't be examples because they are "anecdotes"? If so, would you like to explain why?
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You are arguing against iOS because you can't downgrade iOS versions.
quadraginta said:
How do you feel about the problem of being unable to revert to an earlier version of iOS when the update doesn't work properly with an aging device?
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In the case of mumbles, he already explained it wasn't an aging device.

But my greater point is that these 2 anecdotes don't provide any evidence that being able to "revert to an earlier version of iOS when the update doesn't work properly" is necessary. It's not an issue that updates don't work properly.

quadraginta said:
Are you certain this is true? Is it always true? Was it true in the case of either or both of the two "anecdotes"?
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Yes, yes, and yes.

quadraginta said:
Are you suggesting that anglolawyer and mumbles were lying about their experience in their "anecdotes"?
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No, I am arguing that these 2 anecdotes don't provide any evidence that being able to "revert to an earlier version of iOS when the update doesn't work properly" is necessary. The iOS versions that are designed to work on the hardware work on the hardware. Sometimes, as in the case of mumbles, upgrading in place can have issues. In that case, you restore as new, then restore from backup. I am not aware of *any* cases where the new iOS version simply does not work properly at all on hardware it is advertised to work on. Are you ?

quadraginta said:
Are there no instances where people have had their Apple devices updated only to find that the newer version didn't work well on their older device? Because it was a new and different version, not because it needed to be re-installed?
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I am sure there are. But didn't work well != didn't work properly, and that's called moving the goal posts.

quadraginta said:
If they did need to, can they re-install an older version themselves, one which did work well, to correct the problem?
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Yes, during the time frame apple is still signing the older version, or if you save your SHSH blob using a tool like tiny umbrella when you install that version, you can use that to revert.

OR you could simply wait and read the dozens of detailed reviews that appear shortly after a new version is released and decide if you should "upgrade" your iOS version or not.
 
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