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Influeza/MRSA a fatal combination

Since you are not claiming this new development is already well publicized and most people are aware of the risk benefit profile of influenza vaccine, then how do you suggest one shares the information with the public without what you call scaremongering? "Gee it's rare folks but flu vaccines are a good idea anyway"? :rolleyes:
"Hello JREF folks.
I would like to tell you about a recent death of a boy from college who died from MRSA pneumonia. etc.

I have also heard of recent reports of influenza leading to a worst presentation of MRSA in young healthy kids. These cases are rare but often lead to a very aggressive and deadly form of MRSA pneumonia.

I would really recommend that you guys get your kids immunized against flu this year so as to prevent a possible worst outcome."

Considering the sharp up-tick in cases over the previous years, should we wait until there are a thousand deaths before ringing the alarm bells? Ten thousand? Since the cases were not officially reportable, we don't know how many fatalities occurred in otherwise healthy children and young adults last year from this.
 
I give thanks for members sending me in the right direction regarding the safety of thimerosal. However I do not appreciate being accused of lying.

Then do not propagate the lies of quacks and charlatans.
American physician called David Ayoub called Mercury, Autism and the Global Vaccine Agenda. Are his claims baseless? I would but I cannot post hyperlinks yet.

I know the Skeptics guide to the universe demolished him a few weeks ago.
 
The guy totally missed my point, rigggggghhht over his head. Then posts about contraceptive vaccines which had nothing to do with the point I was making. Newsflash... vaccines that prevent diseases like the measles and polio are not going to cause sterility.

oyyy.

Yeah, there are nutbar MDs that are antivaccine, like the ones that also claim to cure things like ADD (Dr. Jay), and ones that go on about UNICEF conspiracies, but it doesn't make them right about vaccines. Listening to their delusions about vaccines only makes you look gullible.
 
Are the only numbers quoted in the above cites 10 in Louisana/Georgia, 15 in the world, and 10 in Oz?

Sounds like another Ebola/Sars/Bird flu kind of "warning".
"A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest, la la la..."

@ Paxi, Ivor and casebro: Has it dawned on any of you to actually do a little investigation into the subjects you are commenting about rather than drawing quick conclusions based on a little preexisting knowledge and a limited picture of the total situation?

There is an emerging worldwide pandemic of CA-MRSA, particularly the USA300 strain. In addition, the ability of the USA300 strain to produce Panton-Valentine leukocidin toxin has spread horizontally into MSSA and HA-MRSA strains frequently increasing the virulence of this organism in multiple settings worldwide. Staph infections are currently emerging worldwide in unusually large numbers and with increasing severity.

Staph bacteria emerged in the 60s as a source of more frequent, more virulent infections. Perhaps you missed this little tidbit in the article I cited:
As demonstrated by the cases in this report, secondary S. aureus pneumonia is a potentially catastrophic complication of influenza. S. aureus respiratory coinfections often develop into severe, necrotizing pneumonia with a relatively high case-fatality rate (33% during the influenza epidemic of 1968--1969) and rapid clinical progression (e.g., death within 24 hours after admission) (2)
(2) Schwarzmann SW, Adler JL, Sullivan RJ, Marine WM. Bacterial pneumonia during the Hong Kong influenza epidemic of 1968--1969. Arch Intern Med 1971;127:1037--41.
Waxing and waning over decades is probably a common pattern for many pathogens.

You've also taken a report as a final count which clearly states it is not detecting the actual rate of staph/influenza fatalities in otherwise healthy children because such data has not been systematically collected. One can, however, assume that the underreported rate in 2 states reflects at least 25 times as many in the US alone. After all, there is clear evidence this phenomena is not isolated to the Southern States. In fact, the current rise in CA-MRSA is showing up consistently world wide.

Influenza is seasonal and occurs annually worldwide. In any given winter between 10-30% of the population can be expected to contract influenza. So we can expect many more deaths from MRSA/influenza co-infection in otherwise healthy children and young adults this year. And there is no indication the trend of previously healthy child mortality from MRSA/flu co-infection which has seen a sharp increase in the last 5 years has peaked.

How many needlessly dead children is your threshold for recommending a flu vaccine? What evidence of a worldwide pandemic of CA-MRSA do you need to recognize an alarm bell should indeed be rung? And does the fact there is so much misinformation surrounding flu vaccine warrant calling attention to this risk which the general public is not yet fully aware of?

The fact is, the majority of the population in the US and elsewhere have little idea how deadly influenza is. Many people think common Noro-virus nausea and vomiting is the flu because they have heard it erroneously called "stomach flu". Others think flu vaccines prevent the average minor upper respiratory infections. They do not recognize influenza the same way they recognize measles or tetanus.

I'm going to post some background material in the next post because I have many references and some folks skim over long posts. This risk warrants alarm bells. You've only cited a fraction of the whole picture as your reasoning alarm is not warranted. Try holding your tongue long enough to actually get the broader picture here.
 
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CA-MRSA, particularly the USA300 strain, has reached a world wide pandemic threshold. Children are particularly affected. (Emphasis mine in the following quotes.)

Community-associated MRSA in the pediatric primary care setting.
Community-associated methicillin-resistant (CA-MRSA) infections occur in children throughout the United States and worldwide. The most common are skin and soft tissue infections. However, life-threatening invasive disease and death can occur as a result of CA-MRSA. The rising prevalence of antimicrobial resistance associated with CA-MRSA further complicates antibiotic treatment therapy. This clinical paper elucidates the recent evolution in the epidemiology of CA-MRSA in otherwise healthy children within the community, and the rising antimicrobial resistance of this virulent pathogen.

Community-acquired methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus: considerations for school nurses.
Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) is a disease-causing organism that has been present in hospital settings since the 1960s. However, a genetically distinct strain of MRSA, called community-acquired methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (CA-MRSA), has emerged in recent years in community settings among healthy individuals. While this organism has been found to be less resistant to antibiotics, it is also more virulent and capable of causing a spectrum of illnesses.

Staph Superbug Most Common Cause Of US Skin Infections
MRSA is now the most common cause of skin infections in the majority of American cities, says Dr. G Moran, University of California, Los Angeles, David Geffen School of Medicine. He believes doctors should be giving patients who need antibiotics only those known to effectively combat MRSA. He says things have changed over the last ten years - a different type of bacteria is now the most common cause of infections....

...Researchers cultured soft-tissue infections from 422 patients at emergency rooms in 11 US cities. The first time any such study had been done of so many US cities.

59% of all those patients had MRSA infection. Infection rates in those 11 cities varied from 15% to 74%. 97% of the MRSAs were of one strain, called USA-300.

Emergence of Community-Acquired Methicillin-Resistant Staphylococcus aureus USA 300 Clone as the Predominant Cause of Skin and Soft-Tissue Infections
Results: Community-onset skin and soft-tissue infection due to S. aureus was identified in 389 episodes, with MRSA accounting for 72% (279 of 389 episodes).

Skin and Soft Tissue Infections Caused by Methicillin-Resistant Staphylococcus aureus USA300 Clone
We studied MRSA infections and overall skin and soft tissue infections (SSTIs) in outpatients receiving care at the Baltimore Veterans Affairs Medical Center Emergency Care Service during 2001–2005. We found an increase in MRSA infections, from 0.2 to 5.9 per 1,000 visits (p<0.01); most were community-associated SSTIs. Molecular typing showed that >80% of MRSA infections were caused by USA300. In addition, SSTI visits increased from 20 to 61 per 1,000 visits (p<0.01). The proportion of SSTI cultures that yielded MRSA increased from 4% to 42% (p<0.01), while the proportion that yielded methicillin-sensitive S. aureus remained the same (10% to 13%, p = 0.5). The increase in community-associated MRSA infections and the overall increase in SSTIs in our population suggest that USA300 is becoming more virulent and has a greater propensity to cause SSTIs.

Community MRSA ST8 (``USA300'') has arrived in Central Europe
Objective: Community MRSA (cMRSA) ``USA300'', MLST ST8 was reported as particularly epidemic in Northern America. This cMRSA exhibits a few characteristics by which it can be detected easily. Here we report about characterisation of MRSA exhibiting spa sequence type t008 (congruent with MLST ST8) from community and nosocomial infections in Germany in order to assess the emergence and spread of the epidemic community MRSA ``USA 300'' in Central Europe....

...Conclusion: lukS-lukF containing MRSA carrying other acquired genes which are characteristic for MRSA ``USA 300'' have been recorded from several locations in Germany.

BBC; Jan 2008
A deadly strain of the superbug MRSA which can lead to a flesh-eating form of pneumonia has emerged....

...So far only two cases of the new form of the USA300 strain of the bug have been recorded in the UK. [That was a year ago]

...The USA300 strain was first isolated from a patient in 2001 - it is now the dominant form of Staphylococcus infection in the US

Emergence and characterization of community associated methicillin-resistant Staphyloccocus aureus infections in Denmark, 1999-2006.
MRSA is now frequently found as a community associated (CA) pathogen. Denmark has been a low prevalence country for MRSA since the mid-1970s, but has in recent years experienced an increasing number of CA-MRSA cases....

...CA-MRSA constituted 29.4 % of all MRSA infections (n=1790) and an increasing proportion of the annual numbers of MRSA infections in the study period. CA-MRSA was associated with young age, skin and soft tissue infections, and non-Danish origin....

...The results suggest multiple introductions of MRSA as an important source for CA-MRSA infections in Denmark.

Community-acquired methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus in Madrid, Spain: transcontinental importation and polyclonal emergence of Panton-Valentine leukocidin-positive isolates.
Community-acquired methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (CA-MRSA) isolates producing the Panton-Valentine leukocidin (PVL) have been reported worldwide. We describe the molecular characteristics of PVL-positive CA-MRSA strains isolated in Madrid, Spain, and analyze the clinical features of patients infected with these isolates. From 2004 to 2007, we collected 13 PVL-positive MRSA isolates from patients attending to the emergency department....The isolates were from children (n = 9) and adults (n = 4), and were associated with skin and soft tissue infections (n = 9), otitis (n = 1), and bacteremia (n = 1). Nine patients were from South America. Our results indicate the transcontinental importation and recent emergence in Spain of PVL-positive CA-MRSA strains belonging to 3 distinct lineages, including 1 predominant (ST8-SCCmec IVc).

Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus: a 5-year review of surveillance data in a tertiary care hospital in Saudi Arabia.
CONCLUSION: The increasing trend of HA-MRSA infections has been a noticeable global problem. We identified a gradual increase in the rates of MRSA colonization and infection in a tertiary care center Saudi Arabia

Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus in two tertiary-care centers in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.
CONCLUSIONS: The prevalence of MRSA is high and rapidly increasing in the two hospitals, as it is worldwide.

Characterization of ST80 Panton-Valentine leukocidin-positive community-acquired methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus clone in Tunisia.
The spread of community-acquired methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (CA-MRSA) has been reported in communities worldwide. In this study, we characterized 64 Tunisian CA-MRSA by agr typing, polymerase chain reaction assay for 20 virulence genes,...

MRSA USA300 Clone and VREF — A U.S.–Colombian Connection?



There are additional contributors in this pandemic scenario.

Transmission of methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus strains between different kinds of pig farms.
Screening of the pigs on six farms supplying pigs for the MRSA positive farms revealed that the pigs on all but one farm were MRSA positive.

Prevalence of methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus among veterinarians: an international study.
Transmission of MRSA from pigs to staff tending to these animals appears to be an international problem, creating a new reservoir for community-acquired MRSA (CA-MRSA) in humans in Europe, and possibly worldwide. The rise of a new zoonotic source of MRSA could have a severe impact on the epidemiology of CA-MRSA, and may have consequences for the control of MRSA, especially in those countries that maintain a low prevalence by means of search-and-destroy policies.

Increasing rates of community-acquired methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus infections among HIV-infected persons.



The gene responsible for making this organism particularly deadly has been naturally selected resulting in an increase in staph aureus virulence world wide.

Medscape 2004
CA-MRSA is more likely to encode for the Panton-Valentine leukocidin (PVL), which is a virulence factor that has been associated with severe necrotizing pneumonia and skin and soft-tissue infections....

...CA-MRSA Pneumonia and Influenza

The main presentation on pneumonia caused by CA-MRSA was by Jeffrey Hageman from the CDC.[2] The report included 17 cases of community-acquired pneumonia reported from 9 states in the 2003-2004 influenza season. The median age was 21 years (range, 8 months to 62 years). Twelve were previously healthy; 16 required hospitalization, including 13 hospitalized in the intensive care unit; 8 required intubation; and 6 required chest tubes for drainage of pleural collections. There were 5 deaths (29%). Strains were available for testing in 12 patients; 11 showed PVL and each of 10 showed SSC mec IV. These strains were uniformly sensitive to rifampin and TMP-SMX. The study authors conclude that pneumonia in previously healthy persons due to CA-MRSA usually occurs in association with influenza and is emerging as a potentially important disease that may require modification of the current guidelines of empirical antibiotic treatment. Nevertheless, more information is necessary to define optimal antibiotic therapy and the role of influenza vaccination.

Epidemic community-associated methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus: recent clonal expansion and diversification.
Taken together, our results demonstrate that there has been recent clonal expansion and diversification of a subset of isolates classified as USA300. The findings add an evolutionary dimension to the epidemiology and emergence of USA300 and suggest a similar mechanism for the pandemic occurrence and spread of penicillin-resistant S. aureus (known as phage-type 80/81 S. aureus) in the 1950s.

The evolution of Staphylococcus aureus.
However, from the late 1990s, community-associated MRSA (CA-MRSA) clones emerged worldwide. CA-MRSA harbors SCCmec type IV, V or VII, the majority belong to other S. aureus lineages compared to HA-MRSA, and CA-MRSA is often associated with the presence of the toxin Panton-Valentine leukocidin (PVL). However, during recent years, the distinction between HA-MRSA and CA-MRSA has started to disappear, and CA-MRSA is now endemic in many US hospitals.

Three-year survey of community-acquired methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus producing Panton-Valentine leukocidin in a French university hospital.
A retrospective survey was conducted at Bicêtre Hospital, France from January 2001 to September 2003 to screen for S. aureus isolates with a typical phenotype previously involved in necrotizing pneumonia in France. ... Seventeen isolates were found and 16 were viable. The Panton-Valentine leukocidin (PVL) genes, various toxin genes and SCCmec IV and agr3 alleles were detected in all isolates. ... Fourteen isolates were community-acquired methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus (CA-MRSA) isolated from previously healthy patients with skin or soft tissue infections.

A geographic variant of the Staphylococcus aureus Panton-Valentine leukocidin toxin and the origin of community-associated methicillin-resistant S. aureus USA300.
BACKGROUND: The majority of recent community-associated methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) infections in the United States have been caused by a single clone, USA300. USA300 secretes Panton-Valentine leukocidin (PVL) toxin, which is associated with highly virulent infections...

..CONCLUSIONS: All sampled PVL genes appear to share a recent common ancestor and spread via a combination of clonal expansion and horizontal transfer. US isolates harbor a variant of PVL that is strongly associated with MRSA infections. Protein modeling reveals that this variant may have functional significance. We propose a hypothesis for the origin of USA300.

Increase of the USA300 clone among community-acquired methicillin-susceptible Staphylococcus aureus causing invasive infections.
RESULTS: Invasive CA-MSSA infections increased from 14 in year 1 to 36 in year 5 (5-year total = 122 patients). Among the CA-MSSA isolates available for typing in the 5-year period, USA300 MSSA strains increased from 14% (2 of 14) to 35% (11 of 31) (P = 0.03)....

...CONCLUSIONS: USA300 accounted for a growing proportion of CA-MSSA isolates among children and was associated with increased numbers of invasive CA-MSSA infections at TCH, especially osteomyelitis. Associations were found in CA-MSSA osteomyelitis between pvl and increased concentrations of systemic inflammatory markers in patients.



Influenza and staph a. co-infection are known to have a synergistic interaction that is dangerous to healthy children and adults. An increase in the frequency of CA MRSA infections, in CA MRSA colonization, and in the frequency of the PVL gene in all strains of staph a. can be expected to increase dramatically the opportunity for these organisms to occur as an influenza co-infection. Because I described an anecdote of a single tragedy in no way means that is the only reason for this warning. If you were not in the medical field you may be unaware of the scope of the emerging MRSA pandemic. Those of us in the field are all to familiar with this growing hazard.

Get your kids a flu vaccination and get one for yourself as well.
 
What is "a world wide pandemic threshold"?

The only source that speaks of a pandemic is for something other than USA300:

The findings add an evolutionary dimension to the epidemiology and emergence of USA300 and suggest a similar mechanism for the pandemic occurrence and spread of penicillin-resistant S. aureus (known as phage-type 80/81 S. aureus) in the 1950s.

I haven't seen any WHO warnings about this "emerging" pandemic either.
 
Skeptgirl, you have made a huge 22 citings in your post above. All are off-topic, since NONE say anything about a flu/mrsa combination. I never said MRSA is non-consequential, I said that the flu/mrsa is scarce enough that the OP is scaremongering.

The death rate is still ONE. Something will kill each of us. MRSA/flu is as likely a killer as infected paper cuts. Or SARS, Ebola, bird flu ,....
 
Here are some questions.

1. How many cases are on record of Influenza + MRSA Pneumonia?

2. Of those cases, what percentage were fatal?

3. Is the mortality rate for Influenza + MRSA Pneumonia higher then other serious co-infections, such as let us say Shingles and Influenza, or Varicella and Influenza?

4. Is the incident rate sufficiently high to warrant any forms of prevention/prophylaxis beyond what is being done?

If the entire point of the thread is to provide yet another reason to get the flu shot, then I would say that there are so many other reasons, much more common, that one could use.

Is providing the case of a serious fatality from a rare co-infection really needed? Perhaps. If I have to get to that point with any of my patients, I am probably telling them that it is ultimately their choice, but that I have provided them with reasons to get the injection, and that my medical advice is to do so.

TAM:)
 
What is "a world wide pandemic threshold"?

The only source that speaks of a pandemic is for something other than USA300:



I haven't seen any WHO warnings about this "emerging" pandemic either.
Pandemic and epidemic thresholds depend on exceeding specific endemic rates for each infectious disease. This is an emerging pandemic. The rates of CA-MRSA USA300 strain infections are exceeding endemic rates worldwide.

It's absurd after all I posted you should claim you saw no warnings from WHO therefore all my sources are insufficient to support what I've said.
 
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Skeptgirl, you have made a huge 22 citings in your post above. All are off-topic, since NONE say anything about a flu/mrsa combination. I never said MRSA is non-consequential, I said that the flu/mrsa is scarce enough that the OP is scaremongering.

The death rate is still ONE. Something will kill each of us. MRSA/flu is as likely a killer as infected paper cuts. Or SARS, Ebola, bird flu ,....
MRSA + Flu is dangerous. MRSA + Flu cases have been increasing every year over the last 5 years. And you can't see the potential for more cases this year than last? And you don't see the relevance of my posting on the increase in more virulent MRSA worldwide?

I'd say that's either resistance to considering you may need to change your thinking or else you really have a concrete brain.
 
Here are some questions.

1. How many cases are on record of Influenza + MRSA Pneumonia?

2. Of those cases, what percentage were fatal?

3. Is the mortality rate for Influenza + MRSA Pneumonia higher then other serious co-infections, such as let us say Shingles and Influenza, or Varicella and Influenza?

4. Is the incident rate sufficiently high to warrant any forms of prevention/prophylaxis beyond what is being done?
1 - many hundreds, I haven't looked for the exact total.
2 - about 30- 60% case fatality rate
3 - yes
4 - yes


If the entire point of the thread is to provide yet another reason to get the flu shot, then I would say that there are so many other reasons, much more common, that one could use.

Is providing the case of a serious fatality from a rare co-infection really needed? Perhaps. If I have to get to that point with any of my patients, I am probably telling them that it is ultimately their choice, but that I have provided them with reasons to get the injection, and that my medical advice is to do so.

TAM:)
I vaccinate employees at the worksite not patients in a clinic. Among the people I see a fair percentage of them believe in a number of myths about flu vaccines. Do you think your sample represents the extent of people unaware of the actual risk of flu?

Only recently have we included healthy people in the recommendation for flu shots. What impact do you think this has on a parent deciding to get a flu vaccine for a healthy teen?
 
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Who, exactly, has decided that we are now on the threshold of a pandemic?

Precisely what are the endemic rates for this?

When, exactly, are they projected to exceed these specific endemic rates?

Where, exactly, can I see a warning from WHO about this emerging pandemic?
 
1 - many hundreds, I haven't looked for the exact total.
2 - about 30- 60% case fatality rate
3 - yes
4 - yes


I vaccinate employees at the worksite not patients in a clinic. Among the people I see a fair percentage of them believe in a number of myths about flu vaccines. Do you think your sample represents the extent of people unaware of the actual risk of flu?

Only recently have we included healthy people in the recommendation for flu shots. What impact do you think this has on a parent deciding to get a flu vaccine for a healthy teen?

Well if your data above is true, then while I think the risk over all is still low, I think the significant number of cases combined with the mortality rate, justifies your presentation of the argument, and I am not convinced it is in fact "Fear Mongering".

As for my "sample", if you mean my patient population, I would say they are average in all respects, and therefore would exhibit a typical amount of ignorance as to the seriousness of the flu and its risks.

I think that the jury is still out (though I agree, it seems to be leaning heavily toward universal vaccination) on vaccinating EVERYONE for the flu. As a result, here where I work in Canada, while we recommend the flu shot to just about everyone, only the "at risk" groups get it covered in terms of cost.

I think that we should be honest with our patients when dealing with whether they should be vaccinated.

in other words, there is a difference between:

"Out of tens of thousands of people who get the flu each year, there are X number of fatalities. In addition, of those who get the flu, several hundred (which works out to X% of total cases) can acquired a co infection of MRSA Pneumonia. Of those who do obtain such a co-infection about one to two thirds of cases can be fatal."

Versus

"If your teen doesn't get the flu shot she might get the flu, and possibly MRSA Pneumonia which might kill her."

As health professionals we must always indevour to choose the first example.

TAM:)
 
Severity of warning discussion aside, this thread is a good reminder to go get my flu shot at the local clinic. I'll probably do it tomorrow, today it may be to late. Much good info on risks and issues, thanks to all.

DR
 
Severity of warning discussion aside, this thread is a good reminder to go get my flu shot at the local clinic. I'll probably do it tomorrow, today it may be to late. Much good info on risks and issues, thanks to all.

DR

I suggest you do something even more important than getting a flu shot to protect your health as well:

Do not use your mobile phone while driving.
 
I suggest you do something even more important than getting a flu shot to protect your health as well:

Do not use your mobile phone while driving.

Non sequitur much? :confused:

Most years I get a flu shot, habit from years in the military when it was mandatory, but some years I miss it. I figure an ounce of prevention, though I know it's not a guarantee I'll not get some sort of bug during the flu season.

I don't have allergy issues with the vaccine, so it's nothing but upside for me to get it.

DR
 
Non sequitur much? :confused:

<snip>

Depends. Were you planning on driving to the clinic to get your flu vaccination?:)

What suprises me is how often people will make an effort to obtain relatively small risk reductions, yet will ignore the simple stuff like eating a balanced diet, taking regular exercise and not drinking alcohol to excess. Oh, and not using their mobile phones while driving.
 
Well if your data above is true, then while I think the risk over all is still low, I think the significant number of cases combined with the mortality rate, justifies your presentation of the argument, and I am not convinced it is in fact "Fear Mongering".
Thank you. If one compares cost and risk of flu shots, (both minimal) to risk of flu which is high, times frequency which is relatively rare, the equation still tips easily toward 'get the shot'.

As for my "sample", if you mean my patient population, I would say they are average in all respects, and therefore would exhibit a typical amount of ignorance as to the seriousness of the flu and its risks.
Yes, and I'm sure you see your share of people who believe flu and flu vaccine myths, but you are missing the population of healthy people who haven't seen a health care provider in years. Not that I'm saying these added persons skew your sample by that much, but I do spend a lot of time trying to dispel the unique flu vaccine myths in my practice. The same folks who don't think twice about tetanus or hep B vaccine do manage to put flu shots in a different category in their minds.

I think that the jury is still out (though I agree, it seems to be leaning heavily toward universal vaccination) on vaccinating EVERYONE for the flu. As a result, here where I work in Canada, while we recommend the flu shot to just about everyone, only the "at risk" groups get it covered in terms of cost.
The jury is out, but in particular because it is only hypothesized that by vaccinating everyone we will significantly impact the community spread of influenza. That is the basis of the current ACIP recommendation regarding vaccinating all kids 6 months to age 18 in this country. ACIP has not yet addressed the MRSA/flu connection. I suspect they will however, when they meet again either in April or Oct of 2009.

I think that we should be honest with our patients when dealing with whether they should be vaccinated.

in other words, there is a difference between:

"Out of tens of thousands of people who get the flu each year, there are X number of fatalities. In addition, of those who get the flu, several hundred (which works out to X% of total cases) can acquired a co infection of MRSA Pneumonia. Of those who do obtain such a co-infection about one to two thirds of cases can be fatal."

Versus

"If your teen doesn't get the flu shot she might get the flu, and possibly MRSA Pneumonia which might kill her."

As health professionals we must always indevour to choose the first example.

TAM:)
There are 2 ways to honestly present the need for flu vaccine. There is the, "gee it's a rare risk but you might consider a flu shot", approach. And there is, "the benefit by far outweighs the risk", approach.

In addition, one also looks at what it takes to educate a patient or parent. We know that just providing knowledge in many cases is not sufficient to educate a patient. If, on the other hand, you can provide the patient with information which is relevant to them, you can be successful where just imparting knowledge is not.

I do believe the evidence clearly points to CA-MRSA, and staph a. with the PVL gene is indeed an emerging pandemic. I have seen much evidence this is the case. I found it quite interesting and worrisome that a similar staph a./flu synergism occurred in the 1968 flu pandemic. I don't think it is an exaggeration to point out the potential for influenza to be more deadly in young otherwise healthy people in the coming years. And I don't think the general public is aware of this new hazard.

I would rather error on the side of caution here than take the position we need more evidence. I don't think we do need more evidence. But even if we did, the harm in not sounding this alarm outweighs the risk in sounding it and having the risk not materialize as it appears it is going to.
 
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Depends. Were you planning on driving to the clinic to get your flu vaccination?:)

What suprises me is how often people will make an effort to obtain relatively small risk reductions, yet will ignore the simple stuff like eating a balanced diet, taking regular exercise and not drinking alcohol to excess. Oh, and not using their mobile phones while driving.
Flu shots, seat belts, and functioning smoke alarms are easy interventions. Eating properly is hard. Exercising and the ease of avoiding alcohol varies. This should not surprise you.
 
Who, exactly, has decided that we are now on the threshold of a pandemic?

Precisely what are the endemic rates for this?

When, exactly, are they projected to exceed these specific endemic rates?

Where, exactly, can I see a warning from WHO about this emerging pandemic?
Those of us who are in the field of infectious disease and many other people in health care fields are observing the MRSA pandemic emerge. We are on the front line. Do you think the hundreds of studies evaluating the epidemiology of this emerging pandemic are coming from someone flipping a coin to decide what to do research on?

The endemic rate of staph aureus infections has already been exceeded. That is evidenced by study after study. Try actually looking at the extensive documentation I already posted on this subject.

For influenza and other seasonal infections, the variation is taken into account when determining the endemic rate. Epidemic flu thresholds have been established by states and the CDC in the US. The WHO has a threshold they consider for pandemic influenza.

But there are all sorts of identified thresholds for exceeding the endemic rate which are used for such things as what rate warrants closing a school? What rate warrants stopping international travelers from leaving areas with outbreaks? These numbers are inconsistent and not uniformly even established from state to state and country to country.

Your concept that someone has a neat little list of numbers and thresholds is, I'm afraid, overly optimistic about the state of public health organization and data bases worldwide. If you find the list, let us know.
 

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