India launches Airstrikes on Pakistan..

[theprestige]

The best case scenario is a stable Cold War.

Which is what India and Pakistan currently have. It's not like this incident is some kind of Subcontinental Cuban Missile Crisis. Is there any reason to assume it's going to significantly disrupt the status quo?

 

[JoeMorgue]

Which is what India and Pakistan currently have. It's not like this incident is some kind of Subcontinental Cuban Missile Crisis. Is there any reason to assume it's going to significantly disrupt the status quo?

I mean none of us having magic crystal balls that can see into the future and nothing is chiseled into stone but "Air strikes" are one of those things that tends to escalate rather then deescalate things.

Is the possibility that both sides have enough cool heads to back down from this? Yes, if fact I'd say more then possible it is likely, but it's not crazy to see this incident as worrying.

 

[dudalb]

A statement thst ignores the partition of India in to two countries which is at the root of the problem.

I think the hostility between Muslims and Hindus is at the heart of the problem;Partition was the result of that.
I think Partition was inevitable; The Muslim states would have seceded from India anyway. IMHO some kind of united India was never a realistic possibllity.
India was never really a single country until 1947 but a patchwork of states. Even the Mughal emperors never ruled all of it.

 

[dudalb]

Slow your roll there, Chicken Little. Let's start with what's likely to go wrong.

Can you answer that question, at least?

This is a good example of something which, as an American, I am relentlessly critical of;The American tendacy to ignore or belittle foreign affairs until they turn around and bite us in the butt.

 

[theprestige]

I mean none of us having magic crystal balls that can see into the future and nothing is chiseled into stone but "Air strikes" are one of those things that tends to escalate rather then deescalate things.

So is sponsoring terrorist insurgencies against your neighbors. But I don't see dudalb or anyone else banging the drum for the past 20 years about how Pakistan is on the verge of triggering some huge crisis.

I'm not going to be impressed if the next bit of apologetics is some hand-wringing about how India should just sit back and let the insurgents thrive, because actually fighting back "could get very serious very fast."

That argument is just useful idiocy in defense of Pakistan's aggression.

 

[dudalb]

I mean none of us having magic crystal balls that can see into the future and nothing is chiseled into stone but "Air strikes" are one of those things that tends to escalate rather then deescalate things.

Is the possibility that both sides have enough cool heads to back down from this? Yes, if fact I'd say more then possible it is likely, but it's not crazy to see this incident as worrying.

And his statement that "Well, the airstrikes did not target Pakistani military bases, therefore it was not really an airstrike on Pakistan" was really asinine.
Best case: Pakistan retaliates;which seems inevitable.and then things calm down.

 

[theprestige]

This is a good example of something which, as an American, I am relentlessly critical of;The American tendacy to ignore or belittle foreign affairs until they turn around and bite us in the butt.

As opposed to the obnoxious American trait of trying to drum up Serious Concern about stuff that doesn't actually concern us? Other than you displaying your bunched panties to us, what's the purpose of this thread? Is there some recommendation you have? Should we all have our panties bunched as high up our cracks as you appear to? Should we be writing strongly worded letters to our Congressman? The Prime Minister of India? What's your point, dudalb?

 

[theprestige]

And his statement that "Well, the airstrikes did not target Pakistani military bases, therefore it was not really an airstrike on Pakistan" was really asinine.

Except that nobody made such a statement.

Best case: Pakistan retaliates;which seems inevitable.and then things calm down.

Most likely case, even. Low-intensity conflicts have brief flare-ups from time to time. This doesn't mean they're on the verge of going full retard.

 

[rockinkt]

In 2011 - the USA invaded Pakistan to assassinate a criminal who was under indictment in the USA.
Seems to me that the US has set the precedence.

 

[dudalb]

In 2011 - the USA invaded Pakistan to assassinate a criminal who was under indictment in the USA.
Seems to me that the US has set the precedence.

Uh, that India and Pakistan have been fighting and having border clashes since 1947 seems to have passed you by.

 

[theprestige]

In 2011 - the USA invaded Pakistan to assassinate a criminal who was under indictment in the USA.
Seems to me that the US has set the precedence.

Two nuclear powers in direct military conflict-

Oh, wait. The US wasn't actually in direct military conflict with Pakistan.

Guess I need to revisit this:

two nuclear powers in direct military conflict ...

what could go wrong?

Pakistan has been very careful to avoid direct military conflict with India. So not much could go wrong, I think.

While I'm at it, let me also revisit:

Best case: Pakistan retaliates;which seems inevitable.and then things calm down.

Once you acknowledge that Pakistan has been sponsoring terrorist insurgencies against India for years, you'll see that India's airstrike is the retaliation.

 

[theprestige]

Uh, that India and Pakistan have been fighting and having border clashes since 1947 seems to have passed you by.

Pakistan and India haven't been in direct military conflict since 1999.

Now, if India had launched airstrikes against actual Pakistani military, or against their command and control apparatus, I'd be very concerned. Especially if the strikes were followed by major Indian mobilization, or by moves of Pakistan to begin assembling a nuclear weapon, or something like that.

But this? Bombing a miserable pile of terrorists that happen to be camped just across the Pakistani border? Not really that worrisome. No more worrisome than the repeated incursions by such (Pakistani-sponsored) terrorists into India.

You don't run around starting threads about "Pakistan launches ground attacks on India" every time one of these terrorist groups does its thing. Why does this particular incident worry you so much? Weren't you already expecting that sooner or later India would do exactly this, and with good reason?

 

[Childlike Empress]

Here's a relatively sober article on the events by Iranian state-sponsored FARS news agency. Relatively given that they were subject to such an attack at quite the same time as well, by a Jihadi freak gang calling itself "Army of Justice", while the one that has attacked India calls itself "Army of Mohammed".

[...] The Indian foreign affairs chief stated that New Delhi was compelled to send jets to bomb jihadists in Pakistani territory because of its own “inaction” in tackling terrorists operating along the border.

“India has given proof many times seeking action against Jaish-e-Mohammad and others at terror camps so big, that they can train hundreds of jihadis and terrorists at any given time,” Gokhale said, adding that “due to Pakistan's inaction, this step was necessary and had to be taken”.

He claimed that the jets successfully destroyed the “biggest” JeM training camp near the city of Balakot in Pakistan’s Northeastern Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Province.

The government received “very credible intelligence info” that JeM was planning terrorist attacks in India, which made the airstrike “absolutely necessary”, Gokhale stated. [...]

 

[angrysoba]

And that is the problem:You have two countries with nukes where it seems the religious fanatics are getting control.
I love the whole "But Muslims are not treated worse then other minorities argument.That might be true ...the Hindu fanatics don't like Sikhs or Christians any better...(not enough Jews in India for them to dislike) but that is a pretty damn poor defense.

Actually, Jews have been targeted in India. Mostly recently at Chabad House in Mumbai by Pakistan-based Islamic terrorists Lashkar-e-Taiba.

As for airstrikes ON Pakistan, would you argue that the US mission to kill Osama bin Laden was an attack ON Pakistan? I seem to remember some sarcasm about how if Pakistan though the operation was an attack on them it could only mean that they had some allegiance with Osama bin Laden. And when asked why the US didn’t just co-ordinate the attack with Pakistan that it would be like entrusting their information with Jihadi intelligence.

Or are you displaying that unfortunate American trait of American exceptionalism?

 

[theprestige]

Has this thing become a huge crisis yet?

Because it's starting to look like India actually defused a potentially explosive situation.

It looks to me like Pakistan was preparing to attack India (yet again), and India cockblocked them. Now Pakistan will have to start preparing all over again.

If Pakistan were so hot to escalate versus India, they'd be starting trouble with their actual military, instead of relying on non state douchebags. They couldn't even provide air cover for these douchebags, but somehow were supposed to be worried that they're about to pop off for real?

 

[a_unique_person]

Cows are holy animals in India. Best advice; don't go to India, disrespect their culture and break their laws and then you won't get targeted by the Bovine Boot Boys.

They live there.

 

[Information Analyst]

They live there.

It's also the case that the vigilantes seem keen to claim that any Muslim in the vicinity of a cow was going to eat it, as opposed to being, you know, dairy farmers. Given that plenty of Hindu cuisine relies on dairy products, as well, this just seems like a useful excuse to kill Muslims.

 

[arthwollipot]

Imran Khan to consult nuclear chiefs after India's first air strike on Pakistan in decades

Pakistan's Prime Minister Imran Khan will stage an emergency parliamentary session and meet with the body in control of Islamabad's nuclear arsenal in response to India's first air strikes on Pakistan since 1971.

Yeah, it's becoming a thing.

 

[arthwollipot]

Pakistan shoots down two Indian jets in Kashmir after air strikes

A day after Indian warplanes struck inside Pakistan for the first time since the 1971 war, a spokesman for the Pakistan armed forces has confirmed Pakistan has shot down two Indian jets in Kashmir.

Tensions have been elevated since a suicide car bombing by Pakistan-based militants in Indian-controlled Kashmir killed at least 40 Indian paramilitary police on February 14, but the risk of conflict rose dramatically on Tuesday when India launched an air strike on what it said was a militant training base.

Indian air force planes strayed into Pakistani airspace on Wednesday after Pakistan had carried out air strikes in Indian-occupied Kashmir, said Major General Asif Ghafoor, a spokesman for the Pakistan armed forces.

"PAF shot down two Indian aircraft inside Pakistani airspace," he said in a tweet.

One of the aircraft fell on India's side of Kashmir, while the second came down in Pakistani-held territory and its pilot was captured, he added.

A spokesman for India's defence ministry was not immediately available for comment.

It's getting serious.

 

[angrysoba]

Some reports say a Pakistani jet may also have been shot down.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...own-airstrikes-kashmir?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other