Inauguration Crap

[KingMerv00]

You guys are reminding me when I was very young, usually on Mother's or Father's day, I would ask "when is children's day?" and they would say "Everyday is children's day!".

*Looks at menu*

Why aren't ALL the entrees called "today's special"? It is reverse foodism I tell ya.

 

[DrBaltar]

As did mine. There was very little problem with the slavery part. The problem (for me and many others) is that after the Civil War nothing much seemed to happen until the civil rights movement.

Perhaps I'm ignorant of historic black occurrences between the civil war and the civil rights movement because it had been ignored in history class. So what happened?

Two questions. 1. How long does it take to mention the 761st?

It wouldn't take long to mention it, but in relation to all the large scale happenings of WWII that were covered, wouldn't it seem like a random bit of information?

2. Did it ever occur to you that what with minorities and women being heavily oppressed for a good part of American history that little White male history was omitted?

They didn't say one word about what was to me one of the greatest moments in human history... 2 white guys stepping foot on the moon. Not that I consider it a 'white' achievement. I just consider it a great achievement. But the whole space race was omitted. I'm sure there were other events involving white people that were not part of the history class, but I wouldn't know... it wasn't taught. I can investigate further if you like.

(Plus it's not like said oppression ended with Lincoln, Paul, Morales, King etc... It got better. MUCH better, but it didn't end.)

The fact that it didn't end could be mentioned as part of the lectures on the civil rights movement. I'm pretty sure it was mentioned, at least I got that impression.

Ok, when did you graduate from high school?

'85

I have a question for you. What do you see the purpose of history class is?

 

[Checkmite]

No, I don't think they sacrifice the curriculum for BHM. My problem with it is
1. that it seems to imply that we don't spend enough time teaching black history in schools when blacks are in fact not ignored in history, while other minority groups are ignored without protest. But never-the-less, the annual recognition of black history month is a constant reminder to the liberally minded in education that their job is to gradually add more and more black history to the curriculum each year.

Black History Month emerged from an idea first put to practice in 1926, a time when nothing was taught about black Americans at all, save that they were once slaves. If its function was to compel teachers to add more and more black history to the curriculum every year, there ought to be a lot more than a couple of posters and a banner going up by now, don't you think?

But you're wrong about there being no protest. Some of the groups doing the protesting are black, and their objection is that, if indeed all that Black History Month means is the aforementioned couple of posters and a banner, there may as well not be one at all. Morgan Freeman (my second favorite actor) would rather that what people think of as "black history" should just be assimilated into "the rest of history" and taught accordingly.

2. it seems like yet another example of blacks complaining about not being the center of attention

Black History Month has roots going back 80 years. It's something that just happens, anymore. Ironically, I hear more white people complaining about blacks being the center of attention in February than I hear black people complaining about not being the center of attention at any given time of the year.

3. it is by definition racist, when I thought the goal was not to be racist. (i.e. is White History month racist? Yes)

Racism is not the acknowledgment that different races exist; it is the sentiment that one race is inherently inferior to another race. Are you actually, seriously contending that Black History Month implies that other races are inferior to blacks during that month?

 

[Legend]

I am going to state here, that I'm neutral to this discussion. I'm not going to state my actual opinion on this. I'm not racist to African American people at all.

These are thoughts coming through my head.

Racism is not the acknowledgment that different races exist; it is the sentiment that one race is inherently inferior to another race. Are you actually, seriously contending that Black History Month implies that other races are inferior to blacks during that month?

Every day is white history day. Hadn't you ever noticed?

The point of the matter is, that having a month dedicated specifically to one race, when Whites do not have a month dedicated to them, is exclusory.

Now, I know what you're going to think. "Everything they teach is White history". The point of the matter is not that they're teaching White history, but that they're teaching the history of America. Right? If Black history was indeed a central part of learning about the history of American, they'd be taught it. If it isn't then they won't be.

It's not anything other than that. I find slingblade's comment preposterous and ridiculous. Along with anyone who shares that idea. This is based on the paragraphs I've written above.

Who was it that brought up White History Month again?

That's too demagogic, sorry. The point was that White History Month doesn't exist, and Black History Month does. He's not complaining about Whites not being the centre of attention, which was the quote of his that you addressed. He's complaining about Blacks saying they aren't centre of attention [totally his view, like I said I'm not siding. I'm only popping in an idea, view, perhaps an opinion sometimes, I'd prefer not to disclose when].



Sharing a slightly off topic story, I've just finished watching a documentary about Indigenous Australians in a particular area. Interviewing people, whenever the question of Whites came into play, it was always that we are racist. Inherently, incomparably and irreparably racist. No means to deviate from a collective term. No way, Whites are racist. Fact.

They apparently say that there are rules for Whites, and rules for Black. One person gave an example of the fact that a Black man is arrested and 'gets his head kicked in' and 'slammed on the floor', whereas a "White fella" gets some sort of pristine treatment.

This type of tripe, and I mean utter tripe, is getting so old, so aggravating and so much more pathetic, daily. This victimisation, blame someone else attitude is not helping anyone.

"If you don't have any money, you need to find a job. If you can't find a job, you're f***ed." 10 year old said that. Fair enough.

The fact is, a gobsmacking majority don't try to find a job. Why not? Simple. Because, they're too lazy (not inclusive of everyone, again). So, they have to find some excuse. They have no other excuse, so they play for the sympathy, which is totally uncalled for and pisses me off greatly. Without actually trying, they say that they're efforts would be futile. They're Black so they have an excuse.

Rather simple really.

Remember, "they" just means more than one. I'm picking my words as carefully as I can.

Alex.

 

[Legend]

I'd like to share a perfect example of one-sided racism, which I hate, as you probably know by now.

There is a centre in Perth by the name of "Abmusic" (portmanteau of Aboriginal and music...for the slow ones). It was a music centre specifically for Aborigines to learn music. No Whites.

I want you guys to answer this in full:

Tomorrow, I open a place called "White Music". No Aborigines allowed. What do you think will happen?

I have a hard time settling my anger at this type of thing. I'm going to stop that by preventing myself from writing anymore.

Alex.

 

[DrBaltar]

Black History Month emerged from an idea first put to practice in 1926, a time when nothing was taught about black Americans at all, save that they were once slaves. If its function was to compel teachers to add more and more black history to the curriculum every year, there ought to be a lot more than a couple of posters and a banner going up by now, don't you think?

As I've told redtail, I'm not aware of any other notable historic occurrences by blacks that have been omitted. It could certainly be that I'm ignorant about it if it was omitted, or it could be that there weren't any other events of note.

But you're wrong about there being no protest. Some of the groups doing the protesting are black...

I meant there was no protest from other groups, like Mexican-American, Chinese-American, etc.

Morgan Freeman (my second favorite actor) would rather that what people think of as "black history" should just be assimilated into "the rest of history" and taught accordingly.

Bingo! At least someone agrees with me.

Black History Month has roots going back 80 years. It's something that just happens, anymore. Ironically, I hear more white people complaining about blacks being the center of attention in February than I hear black people complaining about not being the center of attention at any given time of the year.

Probably because times are different now, and it's usefulness has passed. And no, for those who only read half of what I say and blast me on some ridiculous made up point of view - I'm not saying they should stop teaching what they are already teaching about blacks.

Racism is not the acknowledgment that different races exist; it is the sentiment that one race is inherently inferior to another race. Are you actually, seriously contending that Black History Month implies that other races are inferior to blacks during that month?

Racism is treating people differently because of their race. Why isn't there a Latino month, a Chinese month, Native American month? Don't those races deserve recognition as well? Hmm... perhaps not. Or you could just do as Morgan Freeman says and teach all that during regular history classes.

 

[Checkmite]

As I've told redtail, I'm not aware of any other notable historic occurrences by blacks that have been omitted. It could certainly be that I'm ignorant about it if it was omitted, or it could be that there weren't any other events of note.

I'm sorry, I seem to be missing something. Any other notable historic occurrences by blacks, aside from what?

I meant there was no protest from other groups, like Mexican-American, Chinese-American, etc.

Do you think that if someone wanted to create a Chinese-American History Month, there would be some kind of objection from blacks? If not, what on earth does Chinese-Americans not objecting to Black History month have to do with the discussion at hand?

Probably because times are different now, and it's usefulness has passed. And no, for those who only read half of what I say and blast me on some ridiculous made up point of view - I'm not saying they should stop teaching what they are already teaching about blacks.

Once again, because you don't seem to be getting a point that's been repeated over and over: Black History Month is already on the way out. It meant a lot more in decades past; these days, as I've said three times already, it's nothing more than a couple of posters. You'll get your wish eventually.

Racism is treating people differently because of their race. Why isn't there a Latino month, a Chinese month, Native American month? Don't those races deserve recognition as well? Hmm... perhaps not. Or you could just do as Morgan Freeman says and teach all that during regular history classes.

There you go, getting offended on behalf of other people again. If Latin Americans want a month, they will ask, and they will without doubt or hesitation receive. Do you honestly not believe so? Really?

ETA: The "ask" metaphor is probably a poor choice, because it suggests they would need some kind of permission from someone to create the month. When Carter Woodson first created "Negro History Week" in 1926, he didn't ask or propose it to anyone at all; he merely said, "this is Negro History Week", and it was so. It wasn't the result of "them blacks" complaining about not getting enough attention; they simply decided they wanted a week and they made one. Educators at the time immediately recognized the value, and hopped on board immediately, and it has since become a tradition. There's no reason it can't happen again, and just because it hasn't is no argument against such a month.

 

[slingblade]

I'd like to share a perfect example of one-sided racism, which I hate, as you probably know by now.

There is a centre in Perth by the name of "Abmusic" (portmanteau of Aboriginal and music...for the slow ones). It was a music centre specifically for Aborigines to learn music. No Whites.

I want you guys to answer this in full:

Tomorrow, I open a place called "White Music". No Aborigines allowed. What do you think will happen?

I have a hard time settling my anger at this type of thing. I'm going to stop that by preventing myself from writing anymore.

Alex.

It is apparent you don't know a lot of things, and need a bit more education on the subject and the history. But then, so do a lot of people.

I certainly hope one day you get it.

 

[DrBaltar]

I want you guys to answer this in full:

Tomorrow, I open a place called "White Music". No Aborigines allowed. What do you think will happen?

Exactly the same thing is going on here. Whites are assumed to be racist, while the blacks constantly criticize whites based on race and tout the black race.

Obama's church had the "Black value system" on their website. It's removed now but this site has a copy. If it were rewritten in favor of whites it would say:

White value system

• Commitment of God
• Commitment to the White Community
• Commitment to the White Family
• Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
• Adherence to the White Work Ethic
• Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
• Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness"
• Pledge to Make the Fruits of All Developing and Acquired Skills Available to the White Community.

What if there were organizations such as the National Society of White Engineers, or the National Association for the Advancement of White People? They would be shut down instantly.

After Obama's inauguration, there was this:


This is the culture we're supposed to embrace? I haven't heard that Obama publicly denounced this kind of thing, but I really think he should if he wants to be president of the US and not just president of black Americans. The thing that amazes me is that after I post this, I will be criticized as a racist (actually probably already am considered a racist). Well all this so called racist wants is for race to be taken out of the equation.

 

[DrBaltar]

There you go, getting offended on behalf of other people again.

I thought you said you were white.

 

[toddjh]

This is the culture we're supposed to embrace? I haven't heard that Obama publicly denounced this kind of thing, but I really think he should if he wants to be president of the US and not just president of black Americans. The thing that amazes me is that after I post this, I will be criticized as a racist (actually probably already am considered a racist). Well all this so called racist wants is for race to be taken out of the equation.

There's sort of an odd dichotomy in your posts; much of the time, you make good, rational points that I largely agree with, about how taking race out of the equation is a good thing, and how replacing "black" with "white" often reveals a double standard in how racism is perceived in the U.S.

But underneath it, I also detect another sentiment that I'm not sure you're really aware of, and I think that's what posters here are mainly responding negatively to. The paragraph I quoted illustrates it pretty well: the failure to distinguish between black people and a culture which, through socioeconomic accidents of history, is primarily black. The elements of what you call "black culture" which you find distasteful do not reflect on black people as a whole. Likewise, the boy who bullied your son and tried to beat your dog provides absolutely no basis for generalization based on skin color.

To say that Obama must distance himself from "black culture" if he wants to be president of more than "black America" reveals your belief that there is such a thing as "black America." For someone who claims to only want to take race out of the equation, that's an odd position to take.

 

[DrBaltar]

There's sort of an odd dichotomy in your posts; much of the time, you make good, rational points that I largely agree with, about how taking race out of the equation is a good thing, and how replacing "black" with "white" often reveals a double standard in how racism is perceived in the U.S.

But underneath it, I also detect another sentiment that I'm not sure you're really aware of, and I think that's what posters here are mainly responding negatively to. The paragraph I quoted illustrates it pretty well: the failure to distinguish between black people and a culture which, through socioeconomic accidents of history, is primarily black. The elements of what you call "black culture" which you find distasteful do not reflect on black people as a whole. Likewise, the boy who bullied your son and tried to beat your dog provides absolutely no basis for generalization based on skin color.

To say that Obama must distance himself from "black culture" if he wants to be president of more than "black America" reveals your belief that there is such a thing as "black America." For someone who claims to only want to take race out of the equation, that's an odd position to take.

You're right. One black boy bullying my son & dog does not in anyway reflect on black people in general. But what I was actually trying to get across when talking about my son was that yes there are plenty of racist white people, and there are plenty of black people who feel persecuted as a race. If we want this dynamic to end, we're not going to change the minds of the racist whites or the blacks with a constant chip on their shoulder. It's going to have to start with the kids who don't know black history, and don't know about all the past prejudices. Hopefully if they see their parents and friends interacting with black kids like any other kid then racism with be over - at least with the young generation. And as the old codgers die off we can finally move on. I know it's important to remember what the blacks have gone through because we should learn from it and never do it again. But constantly playing the victim is not helping blacks escape it.

But again, what I was trying to get across is that despite good intentions to raise children to be color blind, what do they see when they see black people? The black boy I mentioned has problems with the world. Probably ingrained in him from his parents (or parent?). He's not the only one I've seen like this. I used it as an example of what my kids impressions are when they interact with blacks. If you watch a black comedian (other than Cosby), what is he talking about? Blacks being persecuted by the white man. If you listen to music from black artists, what is it they sing about? I avoid it personally, but what I've heard isn't good (used to be though). So these initially color-blind children see this and right or wrong, form an opinion that blacks are different and racism continues.

Other groups that I've mentioned, the Mexican Americans, Chinese Americans, Native Americans do not draw attention to their pasts. They are simply Americans. And yes, I know there are exceptions in these groups with racism, but they are not at the level I see with blacks.

BTW... where you happen to live has a lot to do with how you take my comments. I can certainly imagine if you're from California, reading what I've wrote on this forum, you must think I'm on crack. (Unfortunately, I'm from TX btw.) The blacks I've seen while in California (entertainers excluded) are not racists and have left the chip on their shoulder behind. I haven't been to Illinois but from what I've seen of ACORN which I think originated there, and Rev. Wright's church the chip is alive and well there. In Louisiana, the blacks wear their ancestors suffering like a badge of honor.

 

[Checkmite]

I thought you said you were white.

I am, and you've missed the point again.

Look, you want to think I'm some kind of sheep for not getting all offended at some humorous remark during the inauguration, knock yourself out. All these ways black people are getting assistance and recognition are an effect, the cause of which is racism. You want to think there's not enough racism left in America to justify the continued existence of these groups and programs? Fine - duly noted. But I do not believe you. I've seen too much racism in the nowadays to agree. And it doesn't even matter anymore - I'm done trying to explain to you why the minority needs help and reinforcement in ways the majority, by nature, does not. It's a kind of logic you seem unable or unwilling to touch. I'm not here to listen to you explain why black people bring prejudice on themselves because a little (black) kid kicked your puppy and your daughter's boyfriend was a dick (and black) and that (black) family down the street listens to their "black music" too loud for your liking. I'm not going to apologize for a bunch of black people being elated that, for the first time in history, a black president has been able to win a presidential election, just because this group of people used the f-word too much for your taste. And I'm sure as hell not going to get involved in arguments over the state of racial relations in Australia, another country on the other side of the world, because I don't presume to be qualified to speak about other countries' problems.

 

[DrBaltar]

There you go, getting offended on behalf of other people again.

I thought you said you were white.

I am, and you've missed the point again.

Look, you want to think I'm some kind of sheep for not getting all offended at some humorous remark during the inauguration, knock yourself out.

No, you've missed the point again. I think I spend half of my responses to you clarifying what was already said. What did I say that made you think I was talking about some humorous remark from the inauguration? You made the remark that I keep getting offended on behalf of other people. The majority of your posts in this thread are because you are offended on behalf of blacks. To which I said "I thought you said you were white. "

As to the rest of your post...

{more irrelevant misunderstandings of my posts... snip}

 

[Checkmite]

No, you've missed the point again. I think I spend half of my responses to you clarifying what was already said. What did I say that made you think I was talking about some humorous remark from the inauguration?

You weren't; I was. I said, to somebody else,

Dude...what? How many positive words can you think of that rhyme with "white"? I mean, "fight", "blight", "might", "spite", "trite"....they just don't work.

I'm white, and I wasn't perturbed in the very least. I think you read too much into his words.

To which, for some reason, YOU quoted and replied:

That's because you've heard it so many times that whites are evil, that blacks are completely innocent and deserving of whatever benefits are bestowed upon them. You're numb to it now and they can say whatever they want to you. Go on and say it... Baaaa baaaa

...thereby insulting my intelligence and launching into some screed about blacks being "bestowed with benefits", which had nothing to do with anything I was talking about. Once I tried to address your concerns, you listed off problem after problem you have with black people and so-called "black culture", none of which had anything to do with my discussion with Legend.

Making some whining insistence that "oh, now people are going to call me racist because of my views" will not pre-empt me from pointing out that racists do, in fact, employ the same arguments, anymore than would the claim that "some of your best friends are black", or if you had prefaced your arguments with "I'm not a racist, but..." (which essentially you did, if only in paraphrase).

 

[fuelair]

BTW, Redtail (and I know where that name comes from) there is a film in the works about the 761st, but it seems to have been caught in the same development hell that Lucas's film on the Tuskagee airmen is stuck in.
So what we get is a mediocre "Saving Private Ryan" wannbe film about black GI's from Spike Lee, whose mouth is once gain greater then what he actually puts up on the screen. "Miracle at St Anna's" is one of the years big busts.

As far as I have been concerned for several years now, Spike Lee's only real current skill (and I hope it was not purposeful) is getting a lot of people to believe there was no Black/AA filmaking before him. My media students learned better, but...

 

[Legend]

It is apparent you don't know a lot of things, and need a bit more education on the subject and the history. But then, so do a lot of people.

I certainly hope one day you get it.

Oh puh-lease. What an ignorant reply. Free ticket out.

For such a massive majority, you can't help them. You can't bring their value up because they're happy with where they're at. They complain about being unemployed, not because they can't get a job, but because they don't want to. Their argument: racism.

They complain about police brutality, when in fact, the police would never use unnecessary force unless it was needed. Their argument: racism.

Rather than fix these problems, and "help us, help them", they continue to ignore it. That is FACT. And nothing other than that.

I feel sorry for the Indigenous Australians who are fixing these problems, because the majority who aren't, reflect badly on those who are legitimately trying, which is why I will never cast them all in the same boat.

This is a great discussion. Thanks to everyone for their opinions, even though they aren't addressed to me or for me, I'm enjoying reading them. So thanks to slingblade, DrBaltar, Checkmite, Redtail and others.

Alex.

 

[DrBaltar]

They complain about police brutality, when in fact, the police would never use unnecessary force unless it was needed. Their argument: racism.

This reminded me about a comedy clip I saw that was pretty good...

 

[Mumbles]

What if there were organizations such as the National Society of White Engineers, or the National Association for the Advancement of White People? They would be shut down instantly.

Uh, there is a NAAWP. It was started by David Duke. You can guess what his agenda is. It generally didn't get very far, probably because most whites don't think that the US has a history of discrimination against white people.

The main problem with what you're saying is that you are ignoring history. The churches were a central authority in the struggle against anti-black racism in the US, so of course they had, and will still have, a distinctly pro-black agenda (although there's a lot of prosperity gospel these days, too). The NAACP, unlike the NAAWP, was not an attack against a group, but a defense for a group (and at this point, it's mostly irrelevant to politics). NSBE was created in large part because black people with engineering degrees had no inroads into engineering jobs(and as an engineer, there's still a need for this - if only because most jobs still go to acquaintances, and there's stil la good deal of segregation). Black History month (originally a week, in fact) was founded because, at the time, history teachers really *did* refuse to discuss black people in US history.

Also, Latino Heritage Month begins on September 15th, may is Asian/Pacific American Heritage Month, and march is Women's History Month *and* Irish-American Heritage Month. If you're going to make arguments about how only black people demand their own month...well, you've got internet, use it.

After Obama's inauguration, there was this:


This is the culture we're supposed to embrace? I haven't heard that Obama publicly denounced this kind of thing, but I really think he should if he wants to be president of the US and not just president of black Americans. The thing that amazes me is that after I post this, I will be criticized as a racist (actually probably already am considered a racist). Well all this so called racist wants is for race to be taken out of the equation.

From the video:

"My president is black, in fact he's half-white
so even in a racist mind he's half right.
now if you have a racist mind, you'll be aight,
my president is black but his house is all white."

Jay-Z's still nice.

 

[DrBaltar]

Uh, there is a NAAWP. It was started by David Duke. You can guess what his agenda is. It generally didn't get very far, probably because most whites don't think that the US has a history of discrimination against white people.

I'm not saying there should be an NAAWP. I'm saying imagine if there were. Apparently there is, and that the founder is David Duke illustrates my point that such organizations are racist.

The main problem with what you're saying is that you are ignoring history. The churches were a central authority in the struggle against anti-black racism in the US, so of course they had, and will still have, a distinctly pro-black agenda (although there's a lot of prosperity gospel these days, too).

Understood... It's still hypocritical, and an example of what I thought we were trying to eliminate in this country. They didn't want segregation, so in defense, they separate themselves from the rest of society??

NSBE was created in large part because black people with engineering degrees had no inroads into engineering jobs(and as an engineer, there's still a need for this - if only because most jobs still go to acquaintances, and there's stil la good deal of segregation).

Seems like a black person would be better served being in the National Society of Professional Engineers (or American Society of <specialized field here> Engineers) which would grant them greater visibility to not just black engineers, but of engineers of any race. Perhaps they weren't able to before, but they can do it now.

Also, Latino Heritage Month begins on September 15th, may is Asian/Pacific American Heritage Month, and march is Women's History Month *and* Irish-American Heritage Month. If you're going to make arguments about how only black people demand their own month...well, you've got internet, use it.

Touché. I knew about Womens History month, but forgot about it, although I do complain to my wife in March lol. So it's just the non-Irish white males that are excluded. I still think Morgan Freeman had it right.

From the video:

"My president is black, in fact he's half-white
so even in a racist mind he's half right.
now if you have a racist mind, you'll be aight,
my president is black but his house is all white."

Jay-Z's still nice.

Well that's what comes to Jay-Z's mind when it comes to Obama. For me it's all his socialist policies that will plague our country long after he's gone, and the neutering of our intelligence gathering capabilities. As for the rest of what he might do I will reserve judgment, but between his campaign promises and his first 3 days it's not off to a good start.