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In what way is Obama a successful President?

Your question is why will people regard him differently than you do? Because they don't regard your criticisms as valid. Case closed. Why are you even arguing the merits of people's claims like on the ACA? They clearly don't see your complaints as detracting. That answers your initial question. There is nothing to debate there.

Don't start a thread asking "why do people think X" and then debate them about X. That is a different topic.
 
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Did he? How would you know when the press shows no interest in investigating what his administration does? Like so many things Obama has been given credit for, it was mostly just talk.

Keep blaming the media for your problems if that makes you feel better.
 
Obama's greatest success is that he was given a turd sandwich and managed to wrangle it into a respectable baloney-and-Kraft-single. Consider the state of things as he took office: our reputation was in the crapper, our economy was perched above that about to drop a sub-prime load, his own congress was so combative that they were willing to shut everything down for weeks just to spite him, and the first midterm into it his own party practically disowns him. He had everything stacked against him.

Yet here we are, eight years later, and you've got to admit we're doing pretty well. Maybe some things could be better, but they could have been a whole lot worse, too.

Most telling is that his detractors can only sit here and bitch about how he didn't accomplish more!
 
Obama had a pretty successful Presidency; I don't think there's much doubt about that. I do think history will be kind to him. He's not going to be rated amongst the best Presidents of all time but he'll be solidly in the upper middle of rankings.

I was wrong about him in many ways and his Presidency actually taught me a lot about politics and solidified my shift towards the middle from more right-leaning. I still don't think Obamacare is a great idea but I can't deny that people were helped by it. The problem for me is that I don't think it is sustainable. It will end up being a band-aid.
 
Obama had a pretty successful Presidency; I don't think there's much doubt about that. I do think history will be kind to him. He's not going to be rated amongst the best Presidents of all time but he'll be solidly in the upper middle of rankings.

I was wrong about him in many ways and his Presidency actually taught me a lot about politics and solidified my shift towards the middle from more right-leaning. I still don't think Obamacare is a great idea but I can't deny that people were helped by it. The problem for me is that I don't think it is sustainable. It will end up being a band-aid.
I hate it when my perceptions of someone are turned on their head :). Hopefully, I'll learn from this.

As for the band aid - yeah, it is and as long as the health of our society is tossed aside by the pursuit of money, society loses.
 
Would there be any value in pulling together a list of the predicted catastrophes which would surely befall the USA if Obama were ever elected, or re-elected, if only to note that the sky broadly speaking failed to fall?
 
Would there be any value in pulling together a list of the predicted catastrophes which would surely befall the USA if Obama were ever elected, or re-elected, if only to note that the sky broadly speaking failed to fall?

I suppose at least part of "success" includes "lack of failing".


eta: "failing to fail"?
 
Your question is why will people regard him differently than you do? Because they don't regard your criticisms as valid. Case closed. Why are you even arguing the merits of people's claims like on the ACA? They clearly don't see your complaints as detracting. That answers your initial question. There is nothing to debate there.

WTF? That is the most ridiculous comment I've ever seen from you. I'm trying to dig deeper and see if what some of Obama's so-called successes are really successes or not. Most of the stuff presented here is pablum. Talking points, with no substance. That is why I wanted to see them. To see if there was anything deeper - something that I was missing. So far, no.

Don't start a thread asking "why do people think X" and then debate them about X. That is a different topic.

I hope you'll forgive me that I dismiss your advice with all of the scorn I can muster.
 
Somebody claimed recently in another thread that Obama's presidency will be treated very favorably by historians. I'm sure that many active participants in USA Politics would agree. My question is "what are his major successes?" It would also be relevant to explain how he, personally, was instrumental in making those successes come to pass.

Just as an example of my thinking on the issue, even if you think Obamacare has been a success, which no doubt it has been from a certain perspective, I think Obama's handling of health care reform was a disaster. Virtually any other Democratic leader could have done a better job with it I think, especially Hillary Clinton. By completely outsourcing the writing of the bill to Congress, and not personally getting involved in the negotiations, we ended up with a big ball of wibbly wobbly stuff that came within a whisker of being struck down by the Supreme Court and may yet be facing insurmountable problems. Furthermore, the way the bill was passed engendered so much political opposition that it gutted his party's control of Congress and sapped his power to have much effect on domestic policy. Something similar, although not quite to the same extent, happened with the stimulus bill in early 2009, which should have been a no-brainer.

1) ACA.
2) He's charismatic and fun when he's off-script.
3) If congress didn't cock-block his every attempt to do anything I'd have more for this list, probably.

I don't find Obama to be particularily strong-willed. I think if he had been _less_ willing to compromise he could've accomplished more. Even with the GOP machinations he's still partly to blame for the lack of effectiveness.
 
WTF? That is the most ridiculous comment I've ever seen from you. I'm trying to dig deeper and see if what some of Obama's so-called successes are really successes or not. Most of the stuff presented here is pablum. Talking points, with no substance. That is why I wanted to see them. To see if there was anything deeper - something that I was missing. So far, no.
If that's your goal, you're going about it the wrong way by letting confirmation bias take a swing at everything before you consider it. You aren't "digging deeper," you're fishing for excuses.

First ask yourself what success would entail. What would it mean to be a successful President, given the circumstances of his term re: hostile congress and faceplanting economy? What would it take for you to admit that you were wrong about him?
 
In no special order
  • ACA will be seen as the first steps to UHC and having the U.S. join the rest of civilized world.
  • Managed to recover from the previous administrations economic disaster, despite repeated sabotage attempts by Republicans.
  • Helped more U.S. residents achieve equality regardless of sexual orientation
  • Maintained his dignity and focus while his religion was attacked, his citizenship attacked, and being accused of hating America, white people, and being accused of appeasing and being complicit in terrorism against the U.S.
  • Oversaw the killing of OBL after previous president stopped trying.
  • Didn't enter into any wars
  • Will be given credit for the implosion of the Republican party (hopefully it returns to normalcy in the future)
  • Didn't allow the Climate Science deniers to derail progress combating AGW (albeit slower then hoped)
  • Continued pushing alternative energy, at the expense of fossil fuels.
  • His keeping reasonable gun control conversation moving will be applauded as future presidents will continue his momentum and make progress to join the res of the civilized world.
That's a bit of it....

Better.
 
WTF? That is the most ridiculous comment I've ever seen from you. I'm trying to dig deeper and see if what some of Obama's so-called successes are really successes or not. Most of the stuff presented here is pablum. Talking points, with no substance. That is why I wanted to see them. To see if there was anything deeper - something that I was missing. So far, no.



I hope you'll forgive me that I dismiss your advice with all of the scorn I can muster.

You didn't even need to argue with people to see that their support was based on pablum. The posts here answered your question. Your continued argument brings into question your intellectual honesty.
 
He's been a better President than his predecessor that's for sure.
 
You didn't even need to argue with people to see that their support was based on pablum. The posts here answered your question.
Seems you and sunmaster14 are confusing pablum with what you don't like or agree with.

Don't feel bad, we're used to it from really smart people :D
 
If that's your goal, you're going about it the wrong way by letting confirmation bias take a swing at everything before you consider it. You aren't "digging deeper," you're fishing for excuses.

Well, I disagree. I actually explained in some detail that I wanted responses that went to the heart of what makes somebody a successful President. Not something that happened during the Presidency that someone liked. Obamacare may be something that many people like, but I remember that in 2009 it was pretty much inevitable that some kind of universal health care reform would happen. It was just a question of how extensive it would be and how intelligently designed. From my point of view, Obama's involvement was limited to a few speeches which he probably felt was sufficient to rally the public support needed to get the job done. I think most Democratic Presidents, given the majorities he had in Congress, as well as the enormous good will he had at the beginning of the term, would have done a better job. As it is, it came within a hair of collapsing altogether, and it certainly has had major problems and been a political albatross for Democrats to boot.

First ask yourself what success would entail. What would it mean to be a successful President, given the circumstances of his term re: hostile congress and faceplanting economy? What would it take for you to admit that you were wrong about him?

A successful President shapes public opinion, as well as Congressional opinion, towards policies that he thinks are good for the country. He also, when necessary, makes politically unpopular decisions for the good of the country. I didn't see that with Obama. I saw him essentially be in reelection campaign mode for his entire term, and he did a poor job of persuasion. In only one regard was he good at persuasion. He was good at persuading people to vote for him. He wasn't even good at persuading people to vote for other Democrats.

As for what it would take for me to admit I was wrong? Well, at this point, there would have to be evidence that he made all kinds of tough decisions behind the scenes and decided - for the good of the country - not to boast about those decisions in public. I am doubtful that such evidence exists. He seems like the kind of guy who would happily sacrifice national security to burnish his image as a leader.
 
Well, I disagree. I actually explained in some detail that I wanted responses that went to the heart of what makes somebody a successful President. Not something that happened during the Presidency that someone liked. Obamacare may be something that many people like, but I remember that in 2009 it was pretty much inevitable that some kind of universal health care reform would happen. It was just a question of how extensive it would be and how intelligently designed. From my point of view, Obama's involvement was limited to a few speeches which he probably felt was sufficient to rally the public support needed to get the job done. I think most Democratic Presidents, given the majorities he had in Congress, as well as the enormous good will he had at the beginning of the term, would have done a better job. As it is, it came within a hair of collapsing altogether, and it certainly has had major problems and been a political albatross for Democrats to boot.



A successful President shapes public opinion, as well as Congressional opinion, towards policies that he thinks are good for the country. He also, when necessary, makes politically unpopular decisions for the good of the country. I didn't see that with Obama. I saw him essentially be in reelection campaign mode for his entire term, and he did a poor job of persuasion. In only one regard was he good at persuasion. He was good at persuading people to vote for him. He wasn't even good at persuading people to vote for other Democrats.

As for what it would take for me to admit I was wrong? Well, at this point, there would have to be evidence that he made all kinds of tough decisions behind the scenes and decided - for the good of the country - not to boast about those decisions in public. I am doubtful that such evidence exists. He seems like the kind of guy who would happily sacrifice national security to burnish his image as a leader.
Okay, well, there you go: Obamacare is Obama's success story. An unpopular decision (congress has attempted to repeal it fifty-six times) made for the good of the country, which he has been so modest about that you barely think he was involved, despite it being nom'ed Obamacare. You seem to be content enough with the program, since you say
I remember that in 2009 it was pretty much inevitable that some kind of universal health care reform would happen
although you should get your memory checked, because my recollection says that's horse crap. Unless by "inevitable" you mean the way a parent might placidly drag along a toddler having a screaming, kicking meltdown.
 

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