In Satan's Name

[JoeyDonuts]

"Michelle Remembers" is generally accepted to be where it started, but it was reinforced through people like Bob Larson with his demon-blasting antics, Mike Warnke, Jack Chick, and a host of others that were just accepted.

From what I can see it became a self-reinforcing farce.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I don't know how to say this without feeling clumsy, shipmate, but this guy is best left in your rear view mirror, slowly receding into nothing as you drive forward down your road of life.

Whatever you are going to, or toward, is more important than what you are moving away from.

DR

 

[godless dave]

I don't know how to say this without feeling clumsy, shipmate, but this guy is best left in your rear view mirror, slowly receding into nothing as you drive forward down your road of life.

Whatever you are going to, or toward, is more important than what you are moving away from.

DR

While this is true, the impact of childhood trauma should not be underestimated. A good therapist might help you work through the effects of such trauma. The key word there is "good"; there are lots of bad therapists.

 

[Darth Rotor]

While this is true, the impact of childhood trauma should not be underestimated. A good therapist might help you work through the effects of such trauma. The key word there is "good"; there are lots of bad therapists.

I concur that childhood trauma may need more than "just turn your back on it." I don't offer "see a therapist" on internet boards as a suggestion. I have seen it too often used in a condescending and negative light.

I also think that Joey is self aware enough that if he thinks he needs a therapist, he'll get out the phone book and call one for an appointment.

DR

 

[Mira]

I am so sorry you had to go through that horrible ordeal. There are no words to describe how wrong that is. The video links made me sick too. It is absolutely frightening how people can be brainwashed into thinking that they were abused, even when they have no memory of it.

It is sick and wrong what they "pastor" was doing. Even though I don't know you, I feel for you and am glad you got away from it. I can completely understand why those videos would make you depressed. Those things that were said and done are so wrong on so many levels.

A non religious form of counseling may help if you feel you need it. It may be a good thing to talk it out with someone you can see rather than faceless figures on a world wide forum. But I hope it helps.

Good Luck.

Mira

 

[JoeyDonuts]

I think the best therapy would be a stiff right cross.

Of course, that would entail searching across the country so I could punch out what is now a 65+ year old man.

Actually, that doesn't bother me so much since I'd totally dropkick Andy Rooney if given the chance.

This has been affecting me lately, but DR is right. I will probably wind up asking my parents about it but for all I know they want to leave the whole thing in their rearview mirror as well.

For the record I should state I have no recollection of being influenced to believe I was ritualistically abused. Mr. Riggs usually selected 'targets' that were already suffering from some kind of emotional distress ranging from simple marital 'bedroom' issues everybody has, to Munchausen Syndrome, to full blown paranoid schizophrenia and possible drug use, to flat out making **** up for the attention.

The worst part is that these people did not receive the treatment they needed.

My parents have kept in contact with one of the people in the video, and it did not turn out well. There was a divorce, one of their kids committed suicide, another one is constantly being arrested for this and that, and it turns out the husband was beating her rather badly the whole time they went to the church - and the Pastor knew about it. Rather than refer them to the proper domestic violence authorities, he "treated" them himself.

However, she has, like many in the church, moved on and appears to be happy. Her daughter whom I remember from my time there has apparently just entered private law practice.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Here's some stuff he's written about his approach to treating Disassociative Identity Disorder (formerly known as MPD):

Hold your nose before you read it. It gets ugly. For example:

In working with SRA/DID it is very important not to conclude that all of your client's problems are necessarily demonic. But the presence of the demonic will always exacerbate the whole spectrum of dissociative symptoms. Therefore the removal of all such demonic influence is essential to the client's healing and resolution.

http://www.his-forever.com/how_to_recognize_and_discern_the_demonic_element.pdf

 

[Ethnikos]

Damn, he keeps addressing the same demons and casts them out, but they keep coming back. I guess he doesn't speak with the correct authoritative name.

I get annoyed when people do that, as if you say the name of Jesus just right then the incantation will work.
I don't think that was what Jesus meant by healing people in his name.
There is a couple of places in Acts where the Apostles said, "in the name of Jesus." and they had instant results.
Paul said, "Do not be like the heathen, endlessly repeating prayers, as if that is going to make God hear you."
It seems like a mockery to do what looks like actually daring demons to posses people.

 

[Ethnikos]

"Michelle Remembers" is generally accepted to be where it started, but it was reinforced through people like Bob Larson with his demon-blasting antics, Mike Warnke, Jack Chick, and a host of others that were just accepted.

From what I can see it became a self-reinforcing farce.

I used to listen to Pastor Gene Scott (back when he was still alive) because his show came in clear on my short wave. The man would sometimes be quoting from the Amityville Horror. I would think, "Don't you realize that is fiction?" He would throw in all this information, from the book, into his sermons about demons and I thought, "Oh that really helps your credibility."
Lots of people have delusions. Like when I lived in California, I told one of my friends who was quoting Don Juan from Carlos Castaneda, the same thing I would have said to old Pastor Gene. "Oh, no! that's ridiculous, all the stuff in these books really happened!" and was very offended with me to where I had to back away from him.

 

[Fiona]

Joey if that made you depressed and angry you are doing better than I think I could do if I had been exposed to that. It is hard to watch such abuse; hard to believe that is legal. I know, consenting adults: but where is the consent in coercive persuasion? I don't see anything here except power tripping and self delusion and a complete lack of care for others.

I echo Dancing David's call for you to be careful in confronting your parents: Keep your self safe above all else. It may be that they will not validate your experience and if you need them to do that it will hurt.

I think to bring this here was extremely courageous and I, too, feel clumsy and out of my depth. But I wish you well, for what that is worth

 

[pakeha]

Here's some stuff he's written about his approach to treating Disassociative Identity Disorder (formerly known as MPD):

Hold your nose before you read it. It gets ugly. For example:



http://www.his-forever.com/how_to_recognize_and_discern_the_demonic_element.pdf

From the linked article:

I have often found alters who could not hear or speak because of the presence of deaf
and dumb spirits. These spirits are usually attached to alters which also carry the 'don't
talk/don't tell' programming. By commanding these deaf and dumb spirits to leave in
the name of Jesus Christ, the captive alters can be released and worked with. This may
include identifying the nature of the programming and its neutralization.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Yeah, isn't that nice?

If you're not talking to him, it's because you've been programmed with a mute demonic entity.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Lots of people have delusions. Like when I lived in California, I told one of my friends who was quoting Don Juan from Carlos Castaneda, the same thing I would have said to old Pastor Gene. "Oh, no! that's ridiculous, all the stuff in these books really happened!" and was very offended with me to where I had to back away from him.

People like Doug Riggs claim the mandate for what they do to people comes directly from "God Almighty" as illuminated through the "Holy Scriptures." They throw around the same scriptures from the same Bible you do. Where the Bible is concerned, what makes Doug Riggs' behavior 'delusional' and other, less extreme Christian counseling ministers 'correct?'

 

[Ethnikos]

People like Doug Riggs claim the mandate for what they do to people comes directly from "God Almighty" as illuminated through the "Holy Scriptures." They throw around the same scriptures from the same Bible you do. Where the Bible is concerned, what makes Doug Riggs' behavior 'delusional' and other, less extreme Christian counseling ministers 'correct?'

I can't hardly comment on that. If people want to come to him then I think that is their right. I wouldn't advise it.
What I was talking about is how one person writes a book about something they think happened to them, and then people just accept it, as if it is something they already wanted to believe in.
I do believe in miracles but you should realize at some point if you are performing them or making a mockery of it.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

I can't hardly comment on that. If people want to come to him then I think that is their right. I wouldn't advise it.

I believe what he does should be illegal, since he's fulfilling the role of a mental health professional. Unfortunately the law will never support this any more than it will support the prosecution of a reflexologist that treats cancer patients. It's deplorable and should be punishable under law, but I just don't see the laws catching up with this, ever.

What I was talking about is how one person writes a book about something they think happened to them, and then people just accept it, as if it is something they already wanted to believe in.

Yeah. I've heard of that book. It's called the Bible and every other religious tome that's studied and used as a focus for worship nowadays.

I do believe in miracles but you should realize at some point if you are performing them or making a mockery of it.

You'd have to define "miracle" first. Doug Riggs probably thinks he was able to work "miracles" during his counseling sessions. If you describe a "miracle" as "an event or action whose only possible explanation is supernatural" you'd have to be completely sure of that fact first by eliminating all other possible scientific explanations.

Even if a so-called miracle could pass this test (it won't) you still can't say conclusively that it's supernatural or the "Hand of God" without overwhelming evidence to that fact - evidence that would in and of itself also be a miracle, like God physically manifesting in front of multiple people out of thin air, publicly and to non-believers as well as those whose perceptions could be influenced.

I'd wager that nearly all of your modern day "miracle workers" know for certain they're not performing miracles, unless Binny Hinn really believes he's able to have the Holy Spirit conjure up a big ol' flaming ball of agape and focus it through his $4000 sport coat.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Wow, that childhood experience sounds like it was a bummer, JoeyD. It amazes me though how many kids exposed to this kind of stuff figure out the rational world eventually. Good for you. I never had to overcome anything from my childhood to think rationally except my Dad's staunch Republican leanings.

 

[Ethnikos]

I believe what he does should be illegal, since he's fulfilling the role of a mental health professional. Unfortunately the law will never support this any more than it will support the prosecution of a reflexologist that treats cancer patients. It's deplorable and should be punishable under law, but I just don't see the laws catching up with this, ever.

What he did would be preferable to having those people all burned at the stake. You should be careful what you wish for.

Yeah. I've heard of that book. It's called the Bible and every other religious tome that's studied and used as a focus for worship nowadays.

I doubt that the people who wrote the Bible were intentionally being deceptive, in order to turn a profit in sales. I think those were just meant for their own enjoyment.

You'd have to define "miracle" first. Doug Riggs probably thinks he was able to work "miracles" during his counseling sessions. If you describe a "miracle" as "an event or action whose only possible explanation is supernatural" you'd have to be completely sure of that fact first by eliminating all other possible scientific explanations.

Somebody who I know personally (as in not just on the internet) just told me about when he was leading a church meeting and was a little let down on the spiritual experience in the congregation. He thought, Jesus said that when two or more are gathered together. He decided to take him up on the offer and called for the presence of God to enter the church. Oops, big mistake. You really don't want God to actually show up, that is if you want to keep living. There were burnt out light bulbs that suddenly lit up and the people were not able to breath. (of course they could a little, but just enough to maintain consciousness) He went to a nursing home to give communion and there was one who was in a coma. He called her name and she sat up and took communion from him. Three days later she died.

Even if a so-called miracle could pass this test (it won't) you still can't say conclusively that it's supernatural or the "Hand of God" without overwhelming evidence to that fact - evidence that would in and of itself also be a miracle, like God physically manifesting in front of multiple people out of thin air, publicly and to non-believers as well as those whose perceptions could be influenced.

If you want to launch an investigation, I could give you the names and places, if you trust witnesses.

I'd wager that nearly all of your modern day "miracle workers" know for certain they're not performing miracles, unless Binny Hinn really believes he's able to have the Holy Spirit conjure up a big ol' flaming ball of agape and focus it through his $4000 sport coat.

Depends. In the case of this friend, he was worshipped like he was the Dalai Lama. He had to run away because he did not want that sort of thing. Jesus, at a lot of points in his ministry, had to get away from the crowds.

 

[JWideman]

It gets easier the more you talk about it.

 

[pakeha]

I believe what he does should be illegal, since he's fulfilling the role of a mental health professional. Unfortunately the law will never support this any more than it will support the prosecution of a reflexologist that treats cancer patients. It's deplorable and should be punishable under law, but I just don't see the laws catching up with this, ever.

Legally, JoeyDonuts, I seem to recall only a licensed physician can diagnose and prescribe treatment for a medical condition.
It could be argued this 'pastor', by putting that arrant nonsense about deafness being caused by 'demons' on his webpage without a medical 'disclaimer' has crossed into the medical terrain.

It would be an interesting legal battle; however, realistically, I have to agree with Darth.
Put it behind you.
However, if you can't, maybe working with people caught in the meshes of this disgusting scam is an idea. Or blogging.

All the best to you, JoeyDonuts.

 

[Eric D]

This is an extremely difficult subject for me to bring up.

When I was a kid, my parents got involved with a church in the Tulsa area called Morningstar Church. I'd been involved in churches since I was very little, and they were all what you'd expect. Nice people, Sunday School programs, services over in time for football.

Not this one.

This one was led by a charismatic man by the name of Pastor Doug Riggs. The services typically took up about 4-5 hours on a Sunday afternoon, and several times throughout the week as well. The sermons, from what I recall, delved heavily into "spiritual warfare." This was at the height of the "Satanic Panic" some of you might recall, and this church/cult may as well have been ground zero. Despite having no formal psychological practice training, this man "diagnosed" the afflictions of his flock as being entirely the hand of Satan.

His sermons were little more than conspiracy-laden diatribes. I remember what I felt when my parents were attending this weekly marathons. A combination of boredom and fear when I was paying attention. I didn't understand most of what he said, but I too was rather mesmerized by him. And I was scared as hell. I didn't get to read Marvel Comics, or secular literature. I didn't get to listen to Depeche Mode like the friends I wasn't supposed to associate with. I couldn't even listen to ****ing jazz. One time, my parents found a stack of Marvel superhero trading cards on me.

That earned me a counseling session with this man. I don't remember what happened, and I don't think I want to.

Pastor Doug Riggs was the subject of a documentary film some years ago called "In Satan's Name." My little brother found these clips. I almost threw up when I watched them. There isn't any "extreme" content, just some NSFW language from a person supposedly in the throes of demonic possession.

I'd like to hear the community's take on this guy. I don't know why, but seeing this videos again has got me depressed as all hell.

Let me know what you think. I guess I've never really "dealt" with all of this. The portion germane to my old church starts at 03:05 into the first video and continues through the next two.

Sounds like you had a rough time growing up. Makes me appreciate my childhood a little more.