Merged In Case you missed it Dylan Avery admits he was wrong (sort of)

[Dog Town]

Do Over!

 

[tfk]

Pretty pathetic.

What does Avery think of 9/11 conspiracy theories now? He thinks that while orchestrating the attacks was beyond the scope of the Bush administration,

In other words, NOT an inside job.

Except leaving the door cracked for a brain-dead LIHOP which was not "beyond the scope" of … whom??

And, that entity not being part of the US gov't, how did THEY get the FAA, NORAD, FDNY, NYPD, forensic analysts, etc. etc. etc. etc. to comply. When one call to the US administration (or the NY Times) would have revealed their absurd meddling in the US's affairs.

This brain-dead bozo has managed to do something I never thought possible: he's come up with a DUMBER conspiracy theory.

there was "considerable foreknowledge" within the government so that it should have been able to prevent them.

Big "doh" there.

"… considerable knowledge …" Except for the what, the date, the time or the places. Other than that …

And the specific procedures that would have allowed the gubbamint to have put the puzzle together & prevented 9/11 are the EXACT SAME procedures that most people find unduly onerous these days. And that these bozo complain are "gestapo tactics".

Why it did not is his new focus.

"I was completely wrong about the last CT. I want a Mulligan. Being completely wrong last time should give me extra of credibility for this dumberer CT."

"Where I am now is, I've whittled it down to a very basic statement that I think a lot of people can agree on: There was a cover-up of some kind," Avery says.

"Someone did sumpin' wrong. Don't know what. Ain't gonna speculate. Just making blind accusations. New investigation!!"

Does this numb-nuts ever learn anything…?

He says he still "support the movement," but he also acknowledges getting "sucked in" deeper than he should have been, into a "hardcore mentality that it was almost too easy to get into back then, because the war had just started and everybody was just so pissed off."

In other words, as debunkers have said from day 1, this whole circle-jerk has nothing to do with anything factual. It is purely, 100% politically motivated.

What a moron.

 

[BStrong]

It's a step in the right direction, at least.

 

[RCory]

From today's Slate

http://www.slate.com/id/2302834


Quote:
What does Avery think of 9/11 conspiracy theories now? He thinks that while orchestrating the attacks was beyond the scope of the Bush administration, there was "considerable foreknowledge" within the government so that it should have been able to prevent them. Why it did not is his new focus. "Where I am now is, I've whittled it down to a very basic statement that I think a lot of people can agree on: There was a cover-up of some kind," Avery says. "The only question is what they were covering up, how far [up] it goes, how deep it runs, and how many asses would be on the line if the truth actually came out."

He says he still "support the movement," but he also acknowledges getting "sucked in" deeper than he should have been, into a "hardcore mentality that it was almost too easy to get into back then, because the war had just started and everybody was just so pissed off."

Wow, that's breaking news. Maybe when HDNet Movies airs Loose Change on 9/11 they'll add a footnote "The prodcuer of this movie no longer believes half of what he says in it." Seems that would be relevant information to the viewer, doesn't it?

 

[Triterope]

It's progress.

Yes, and let's keep in mind what it is Dylan Avery is making progress towards:

Acknowledging that his entire adult life was a fraud.

You have to admit, Avery is pretty deeply vested in the conspiracy. It made him important, popular, and wealthy at a young age. For him to admit it's all wrong is to destroy the only thing he ever built in life, to turn his back on his friends (who are by all accounts still true believers in the conspiracy), and to undermine his dream project.

That's gotta be tough. Read any "former truther" threads here, like this one, and you can get a sense of how tough it is for people to admit they were wrong. And that's just for a rank-and-file Truther, not someone whose every good thing in life was based on it.

Loose Change is to 9-11 what Milli Vanilli was to pop music. Each was a fatally flawed production whose popularity got out of control. When the fraud was inevitably exposed, its creators couldn't get any legitimate work. After a couple attempts to set things right that nobody cared about (Rob & Fab, the various LC special editions), each silently dropped out of sight... except when they're dragged out for some mocking retrospective interview.

And that's got to be a special slice of hell. To be asked for your side of the story, when the world long ago made up its mind that you're wrong. After that Slate interview, I bet he went home and drank heavily. You would too. Think of your stupidest moment, and imagine you had to be interviewed by Slate about it every five years, with the resulting material finding its way into Google. "Hey, aren't you that guy?" "Yeah, I'm that guy." And some people can't deal with that. Like Rob Pilatus, who self-destructed after Milli Vanilli was exposed.

Yes, Dylan Avery said some of the most horrific things ever recorded about 9-11, perpetrated its most dishonest claims, and profited greatly from it all. But unlike the others in his crew, or any other major leaders of the Truth movement, he's showing signs of contrition, or at least re-evaluation of it all. So, as Kevin_Lowe said, let's encourage his progress.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Hear, hear, Triterope.

 

[Oz1976]

Wow, that's breaking news. Maybe when HDNet Movies airs Loose Change on 9/11 they'll add a footnote "The prodcuer of this movie no longer believes half of what he says in it." Seems that would be relevant information to the viewer, doesn't it?

Wait...are they really airing that piece of crap? Someone needs to write them immediately and inform them it's all fabrication and even the producer/writer/director admits it. Hell, the fact he said in one of his first interviews "Loose Change started as a work of fiction...." should have been enough for anyone that watches it to know it's full of dung.

 

[greyleonard]

Wow, that's good to see.

 

[Orphia Nay]

"Where I am now is, I've whittled it down to a very basic statement that I think a lot of people can agree on: There was a cover-up of some kind," Avery says. "The only question is what they were covering up, how far [up] it goes, how deep it runs, and how many asses would be on the line if the truth actually came out."

Yes, even I can agree with that, to a certain extent. I think some people were in charge of some of the hijackers' portfolios (at least the snippets of info they had at the time - they didn't have enough info to pin down the time & place of the attacks), and those people may have been protected by the 9/11 commission from the rampaging hordes wanting blood after 9/11. I don't think their asses should be on the line, though. I think they will have served their country better by remaining in their jobs and learning from their "shortcomings".

Basically, he's trying to appeal to the LIHOPpers and the debunkers, especially since he gives the disclaimer: "I've whittled it down to a very basic statement that I think a lot of people can agree on". I'd be mildly surprised if he's even a LIHOPper now. Give him time.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Yes, and let's keep in mind what it is Dylan Avery is making progress towards:

Acknowledging that his entire adult life was a fraud.

You have to admit, Avery is pretty deeply vested in the conspiracy. It made him important, popular, and wealthy at a young age. For him to admit it's all wrong is to destroy the only thing he ever built in life, to turn his back on his friends (who are by all accounts still true believers in the conspiracy), and to undermine his dream project.

That's gotta be tough.

+1. At some point, before he'll really ever be taken seriously, he'll need to offer some form of apology for the more extreme accusations he's made; but give him time. To go from CD and no plane at the Pentagon to, as it appears from the article, LIHOI and post facto cover-up - a thoroughly rational interpretation of events that many debunkers, including myself, would at least agree should be seriously considered - is a big step in the right direction. It's good to see he's starting to grow up.

Dave

 

[timhau]

"Where I am now is, I've whittled it down to a very basic statement that I think a lot of people can agree on: There was a cover-up of some kind," Avery says.

That's basically a nothing-statement. There's always going to be a some ass-covering going on after major incidents.

Another quote from the Slate article:

"It's easy to come to conclusions when a) you don't have a lot of information at your disposal and b) you haven't had a chance to actually talk to people who were there," Avery says.

In other words, it's much easier to speculate when you pay no attention to facts. What a surprise.

 

[Quad4_72]

Yes, and let's keep in mind what it is Dylan Avery is making progress towards:

Acknowledging that his entire adult life was a fraud.

You have to admit, Avery is pretty deeply vested in the conspiracy. It made him important, popular, and wealthy at a young age. For him to admit it's all wrong is to destroy the only thing he ever built in life, to turn his back on his friends (who are by all accounts still true believers in the conspiracy), and to undermine his dream project.

That's gotta be tough. Read any "former truther" threads here, like this one, and you can get a sense of how tough it is for people to admit they were wrong. And that's just for a rank-and-file Truther, not someone whose every good thing in life was based on it.

Loose Change is to 9-11 what Milli Vanilli was to pop music. Each was a fatally flawed production whose popularity got out of control. When the fraud was inevitably exposed, its creators couldn't get any legitimate work. After a couple attempts to set things right that nobody cared about (Rob & Fab, the various LC special editions), each silently dropped out of sight... except when they're dragged out for some mocking retrospective interview.

And that's got to be a special slice of hell. To be asked for your side of the story, when the world long ago made up its mind that you're wrong. After that Slate interview, I bet he went home and drank heavily. You would too. Think of your stupidest moment, and imagine you had to be interviewed by Slate about it every five years, with the resulting material finding its way into Google. "Hey, aren't you that guy?" "Yeah, I'm that guy." And some people can't deal with that. Like Rob Pilatus, who self-destructed after Milli Vanilli was exposed.

Yes, Dylan Avery said some of the most horrific things ever recorded about 9-11, perpetrated its most dishonest claims, and profited greatly from it all. But unlike the others in his crew, or any other major leaders of the Truth movement, he's showing signs of contrition, or at least re-evaluation of it all. So, as Kevin_Lowe said, let's encourage his progress.

I don't think that could have been put any better. Very intelligent post.

 

[000063]

'"The only question is what they were covering up, how far [up] it goes, how deep it runs, and how many asses would be on the line if the truth actually came out."

If that statement were any more lame, it would need a wheelchair and ventilator.

That's some interesting doublespeak. Has Avery considered going into politics?

 

[Edx]

Wait wait.

But this is crazy right? I mean we all have just accepted this as if its not that much of a big deal, but its huge. He cant believe in demolition if he doesnt think the Bush administration "orchestrated it", so thats out. Someone said earlier about CTists putting a disclaimer at the start of Loose Change when they screen it that he doesnt believe half of it, but it seems like he wouldhave to reject pretty much all of it. right?

I cant wait to see what the conspiracy nuts turn this into. Do you think they will say They have gotten to him?

 

[chrismohr]

I'm glad to see Dylan Avery backing away from the CD theory. It's not easy to say you were wrong. While I never was as outrageous as Avery, when in my twenties and thirties I believed in conspiracy theories. In the early 90's, right before we went into the first Iraq War, I believed there was a conspiracy between US diplomats and Kuwait to damage vital Iraq interests. I was told by a guy from the Christic Institute in Washington there was a secret paper the Iraqis had PROVING this. "What is in those secret papers" he asked darkly. I wanted to know real bad, so I literally flew to Washington and went straight to the Iraqi Foreign Embassy. I thought, wow, I can really prove this conspiracy, maybe they would help me prove it and blow the lid off the American CIA etc etc etc.

I went past all the US security and spy forces that ringed every inch of the Iraqi building, right into their embassy, and asked the Iraqi diplomat why Iraq invaded Kuwait. He said Saddam was mad at Kuwait for lowering their oil prices and so he ordered the invasion. This was almost exactly what Bush I had told us!! Then I asked if the CIA was involved in any dirty work against Iraq, and he said not really, we were just mad at Kuwait.

Finally, the BIG QUESTION: do you know anything about that secret paper documenting a secret conversation between US and Kuwaiti diplomats conspiring against your country? Why yes, I have it right here, would you like to see it?

It was a transcript of a conversation all right, and it went something like this:
America: Hey, you know, it would be great for our economy if you would lower oil prices.
Kuwait: I think we can arrange that.

I was a total nobody from Denver and I set out to prove a conspiracy to be true. The Christic Institute had raised hundreds of thousands of dollars parading this conspiracy theory around the country to peace activists like me, but their national headquarters was literally six blocks from the Iraqi Foreign Embassy. They could have walked in and seen that paper as easily as I did, but instead they flew a guy around the country peddling a bogus conspiracy theory and raising money.

I believed them but I actually searched for verification and proof. This is deadly to conspiracy theories. They thrive in the shadows. When I found a way to shine light on it, it turned out to be nothing.

It's hard to describe what an inner collapse happened at that time. Part of my identity was wrapped up in these theories, and that way of thinking and seeing the world crashed in on me. I had not said horrible things in public like Dylan Avery has, so I didn't have to deal with apologies. But it is very hard to shift out of a belief system you have an emotional investment in. Read Michael Shermer's new book, The Believing Brain. The usual process: belief first, rationalization of belief second.

In the meantime, here are some links to my latest 9/11 article in Skpetic.com as well as two YouTube playlists of all my 9/11 rebuttal videos:

The two playlists for YouTube:
Section 1 Twin Towers (2 hours 9 minutes total) http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL92DAE5DE3C22CF4F&feature=viewall
Section 2 Building 7 (1 hour 35 minutes total) http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDD5BD81A636031A5&feature=viewall

Skeptic.com article: 9/7/11 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/11-09-07/

I'll be responding to comments on my Blueprint for Truth Gage rebuttal thread.

 

[Miragememories]

Nothing really new in this thread.

Dylan has shown a bit more caution in his speculation about those responsible
for 9/11.

That is a far cry from; "backing away from the CD theory".

MM

 

[The Big Dog]

Nothing really new in this thread.

Dylan has shown a bit more caution in his speculation about those responsible
for 9/11.

That is a far cry from; "backing away from the CD theory".

MM

ALL IS WELL! signed, Kevin Bacon's character in Animal House.

JUST A STRATEGIC CLEARING UP OF HIS POSITION! signed, the Iraqi Information Minister

I'M TOTALLY IN CHARGE, signed, Mohamar Ghaddafi

 

[timhau]

Dylan has shown a bit more caution in his speculation about those responsible
for 9/11.

'Speculation'? I swear it used to be 'research'.

 

[TK0001]

I addressed Dylan directly in the Loose Change forums (immediately prior to my second banning). I said something along the lines of "I feel for you, Dylan. You're an intelligent guy, so by now I figure you know you're wrong about this, but you've created a massive spider web that has you hopelessly entangled."

Given the size of the Truth movement (at it's peak) and the dangerous lunatics it attracted, I can imagine it would've been nearly impossible to just admit he was wrong and walk away. His only course of action was to let it die off and hope people just figured it out on their own. I'm sure at some point he decided his best course of action was to keep repeating the lies while just hoping beyond hope to stumble across something that he could pin on the government, but now I'm sure he's given up on that as well.

I would be sad for him, but the things he said (and let his crony Bermas say) are nearly inexcusable in my eyes. The worst of which has been already mentioned in this thread: the accusation that Bernard Brown golfed while he knew his son was being murdered. I'm finding it difficult to summon up pity for Avery and Rowe right now. Maybe in a few years. Maybe.

 

[The Big Dog]

Ahh, Dylan.

who can forget your powerful magnus opus: Riding Bikes in San Diego for 9/11 truth and the powerful statement:

"Ni, Elefun Truth, Biatches"