Implications of Scottish Independence

[Jaggy Bunnet]

I know you are perhaps past the first flush of youth Rolfe but didn't realise that you were quite that old.

I that the sort of thing you meant by comments getting nasty?

 

[Last of the Fraggles]

That would odd given the reason for the union in the first place.

What's also odd is how the same person can believe in the principles behind a national health service on the one hand and want to keep wealth in Scotland at the expense of everyone else in the UK on the other.

I don't think the reasons for the Union in 1707 have much if any relevance to the world in 2011.

You'll have to explain to me how the principle of good quality universal health care regardless of ability to pay is counter to the idea of maximising the economic potential of your local area.

I fail to see how a successful Scotland would necessarily be achieved at the expense of everyone else in the UK. However, if it were the case I feel no more affinity with everyone else in the UK than I do with people in Spain, Denmark or China. I bear them no ill-will, hope for the best for them, and happy to help where I can, but I wouldn't recommend I personally live my life nor manage my country specifically for their benefit.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

We've been essentially one big happy family for centuries

Careful, or Darat will be questionning how old you are.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

That would odd given the reason for the union in the first place.

What's also odd is how the same person can believe in the principles behind a national health service on the one hand and want to keep wealth in Scotland at the expense of everyone else in the UK on the other.

Is it any more odd that a person believing in the principles behind a national health service and wanting to keep wealth in the UK at the expense of, say, Africa or the poorer parts of Eastern Europe?

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

I think you've pretty much made a good case for Scottish Indepence with the entirety of your posts. I suggest you campaign heavily with the Unionist parties for keeping the Union.

I suggest you wear some kind of protective garment to shield your paper thin skin from damage.


Here's to another 300 years of union, including England, Scotland and Wales being the best they can be (part of a greater united whole).

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

The idea that the human race is not, in fact, "split into arbitrary groups", is not one that actually survives contact with reality.

Rolfe.

Sad, isn't it?

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

Careful, or Darat will be questionning how old you are.

You've caught me out. I'm only 306 years old, so I can't remember much about the formation of the union besides there were balloons and a big cake.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

I suggest you wear some kind of protective garment to shield your paper thin skin from damage.


Here's to another 300 years of union, including England, Scotland and Wales being the best they can be (part of a greater united whole).

Surely you support joining up with Europe as that would make you part of a much greater united whole with a far greater ability to be a mover and shaker in the international community? Right?

 

[Last of the Fraggles]

I suggest you wear some kind of protective garment to shield your paper thin skin from damage.

Here's to another 300 years of union, including England, Scotland and Wales being the best they can be (part of a greater united whole).

If the people of Scotland choose to be part of the Union for another 300 years that's what we will be and we'll make the best of it.

If they choose not to then I'm sure the countries can do well independently. Even little old England.

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

Surely you support joining up with Europe as that would make you part of a much greater united whole with a far greater ability to be a mover and shaker in the international community? Right?

As soon as the E.U. adopts English as the primary language I say we hop in with both feet. As long as we need a room full of interpreters to discuss cabbage tax I'll pass.

If they choose not to then I'm sure the countries can do well independently. Even little old England.

Well be fine as long as we still have Wales to boss around and steal from, but as we oppressed them we'd be thinking of Scotland. Ho hum.

 

[scissorhands]

If the people of Scotland choose to be part of the Union for another 300 years that's what we will be and we'll make the best of it.

If they choose not to then I'm sure the countries can do well independently. Even little old England.

Just wondering.
What proportion of the UK national debt do you suggest that an independent Scotland should take on?

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

Just wondering.
What proportion of the UK national debt do you suggest that an independent Scotland should take on?

I'm guessing the plan resembles a trophy wife bailing from a marriage.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

I don't think the reasons for the Union in 1707 have much if any relevance to the world in 2011.

So working together is no longer mutually beneficial?

You'll have to explain to me how the principle of good quality universal health care regardless of ability to pay is counter to the idea of maximising the economic potential of your local area.

It's not 'maximising the economic potential of your local area', it's being a tight-wad and saying 'if you're not one of us, f-off and die for all we care'.

I fail to see how a successful Scotland would necessarily be achieved at the expense of everyone else in the UK. However, if it were the case I feel no more affinity with everyone else in the UK than I do with people in Spain, Denmark or China. I bear them no ill-will, hope for the best for them, and happy to help where I can, but I wouldn't recommend I personally live my life nor manage my country specifically for their benefit.

If Scotland and England are competing it will hurt the economies of both countries.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

Is it any more odd that a person believing in the principles behind a national health service and wanting to keep wealth in the UK at the expense of, say, Africa or the poorer parts of Eastern Europe?

Yes.

 

[scissorhands]

I'm guessing the plan resembles a trophy wife bailing from a marriage.

Not sure this had been discussed, but taken on a debt per head basis, to be completely fair in such a divorce, it lands the wife with an £80 billion debt?

ETA Maybe £100 billion is closer to the figure.

 

[Last of the Fraggles]

Just wondering.
What proportion of the UK national debt do you suggest that an independent Scotland should take on?

I don't know. A 'fair' amount. How much ownership are you going to transfer of UK assets?

All of this would have to be negotiated as part of the severance agreement.

 

[Last of the Fraggles]

Yes.

How so?

 

[Last of the Fraggles]

So working together is no longer mutually beneficial?.

Two independent countries can work together it doesn't necessitate that either partner surrenders their sovereignty, resources or control of their economy.

It's not 'maximising the economic potential of your local area', it's being a tight-wad and saying 'if you're not one of us, f-off and die for all we care'..

That's one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read on this forum. Wouldn't expect it from yourself Ivor.

If Scotland and England are competing it will hurt the economies of both countries.

Or make them both stronger. Or make no difference.

If the UK is competing with China then it must be hurting the economies of both countries and therefore a good answer would be for David Cameron to surrender soveriegnty of the UK to China so we can be a greater force?

Not doing so is being a tight wad and means the Chinese can f-off and die for all we care?

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

How so?

Because there's little shared interest between the UK and Botswana or the Czech Republic compared with England and Scotland. For example, Scotland and England have economies that are in sync, similar living standards and levels of education, speak the same language, etc.

 

[scissorhands]

I don't know. A 'fair' amount. How much ownership are you going to transfer of UK assets?

All of this would have to be negotiated as part of the severance agreement.

100% of GDP?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...d-would-make-for-a-messy-divorce-2281295.html

"Which brings us neatly to the second big question, of how much of the UK's national debt Scotland ought to take on. And, within that, how much of the debt related to rescuing the semi-nationalised Scottish-based Royal Bank of Scotland and, arguably the Scottish bit of the Lloyds/TSB/Halifax/Bank of Scotland combine. Either way, the debt-to-GDP ratio of an independent Scotland might prove so large as to sink it financially before it was even born; 100 per cent of GDP is well within the bounds, being about 10 per cent of the UK's projected £1tr debt and Scottish GDP at about £100bn. "