I'm a traitor

[zenith-nadir]

Full story: "If saving lives means I'm a traitor, so be it" - Sep. 24, 2004

Yunis Owaidah is probably the only Palestinian who's not afraid to admit that he is a "collaborator" with Israel. On the contrary, the 63-year-old father of 12 even boasts of the fact that he has been collaborating with Israel since 1967.

Thousands of Palestinians who have made similar confessions over the past three decades have been either killed or ostracized by their families and communities. The last killings occurred in Tulkarm on Monday, when two suspected collaborators in their mid-20s were executed by Fatah gunmen.

Oweidah, who has two wives and 46 grandchildren, has also been the target of several attempts on his life. Since the establishment of the PA in 1994, he has refrained from entering the West Bank.

Owaidah's connections with Israel were first disclosed in the early 70s, when he helped thwart rocket attacks on the King David Hotel and the Western Wall.

"The Palestinians were then planning to fire rockets at the King David to kill [former US secretary of state Henry] Kissinger, who was staying there," he said. "The other rockets were supposed to hit the Western Wall. The rockets could have easily landed on the Aksa Mosque, killing many Arabs."

"I'm wanted by the Palestinian Authority and I know that they won't waste an opportunity to kill me." His eldest son, Sadek, was kidnapped twice to Jericho and Ramallah, but was released following heavy pressure from Israel. Most of his neighbors have since been boycotting him and his family. "Their children still refuse to play with my children," he said. "Despite that, I have decided to stay here. I don't have any plans to leave."

Owaidah explained that he decided to work with Israel "because of the injustice we saw when we were under Jordanian rule before the 1967 war."

If the Kissinger part is true I wonder what would have happened politically had Kissinger been killed.

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

ZN the shining beacon of all things Israeli.
The lone voice of reasonableness in the vast wasteland that is the forum on the mid-East.

We all know what animals the Palestinians are .

We all know that Meir Kahane was Santa Clause without the Santa ( Rabbi Clause, deck the halls with matzo balls?)
"Sit on Rabbi's lap Moshe, now vat do you want for Hanuka?. Death to all Arabs Rabbi clause!...AH! bright boy heres some geld , now go avay!"

We all know that Koch has a perfectly reasonable political positon in re the final disposition of the Palistinian's in regards to the land God willed to his chosen people.

Why do belabor these points?

Unfortunalty the REAL god ( 'member that Jewish cat? wasshiz name Yahweh,cheebus, Ralph?) Is now a Christan and even if you do make the ancient land 'o Jehovah contiguous, he's gonna come down and take all the PURE believers ( I.E Christians..ya know Pat Robertson, Jerry Fallwell...) to heaven and your fooked for all eternity . See? even God doesn't like Joos!

Man I love Demerol.

 

[Tony]

Finially. A palestinian who doesn't put his stupid religion over his humanity.

 

[Mycroft]

"When the Jews came to Jerusalem, I saw how they were treating the people in a humane way," he said. "By comparison, we had been oppressed by the Jordanians when they were here. Look how the Jews have built a modern and democratic state, and look where the Arabs still are."

Even an Israeli supporter uses racial terminology in talking about the conflict. The Israelis are Jews, and everybody else is Arab.

 

[zenith-nadir]

ZN the shining beacon of all things Israeli.
The lone voice of reasonableness in the vast wasteland that is the forum on the mid-East. We all know what animals the Palestinians are . We all know that Meir Kahane was Santa Clause without the Santa....blah blah blah....

I'm sorry could you point out the part where I stated "what animals the Palestinians are"....oh...wait a sec...I get it...that's entirely your strawman interpretation of the article I posted...nevermind...

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

Maybe , but if You remember even in the Wizard of OZ at the end the Strawman gets a brain. SOOO Solly

Edit to add:
Damn I hate emoticons. thier so..so...white.
sides where did I quote You as saying "Palistininas are all animals"? I didn't I said "We all know..."
Strawman ,Strawman na ne na ne boo boo

 

[zenith-nadir]

Maybe , but if You remember even in the Wizard of OZ at the end the Strawman gets a brain. SOOO Solly

Edit to add:
Damn I hate emoticons. thier so..so...white.
sides where did I quote You as saying "Palistininas are all animals"? I didn't I said "We all know..."
Strawman ,Strawman na ne na ne boo boo

Ok, now I understand...judging by your grammer and sentence structure I'd say someones's been hitting the sauce...

I thought the Kissinger revelation was very interesting if true......and I would love to post a positive story regarding the Palestinians..but unfortunately there never seems to be any whatsoever.

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

No I was being colorful and speaking in vernacular so the simpler folk about us could see your poo for what it is.

BTW speaking of Jews and all conspiratorial sludge that flows thru from You, Phillip Roth ( Jewish cool huh? ) has a new book about WW2 where that famous anti-Semite -isolationist Charles Lindberg gets elected and so Nazi Germany ....well I wouldn't ruin it for you but please buy the tome and absent yourself from the forum to digest it , at the same time depriving us of your monomaniacal racism, K? Cool!

 

[zenith-nadir]

No I was being colorful and speaking in vernacular so the simpler folk about us could see your poo for what it is.

Hmmmm...personal insults...how mature of you....that's ok, I have broad shoulders...but insulting me is not enough, you continue to insult a section of JREF readers who you claim are "simpler folk".

BTW speaking of Jews and all conspiratorial sludge that flows thru from You

So you say, but unfortunately your word isn't good enough.

...well I wouldn't ruin it for you but please buy the tome and absent yourself from the forum to digest it , at the same time depriving us of your monomaniacal racism, K? Cool!

Oh, another personal insult...you're on a roll...may I ask a question? How come a story about a Palestinian collaborator has your knickers in such a knot that you have to revert to personal insults, claims of conspiracy theories and racism? I find your responses to be waaaaay over the top.

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

Hmmmm...personal insults...how mature of you

I'm Sorry how did insult you? I mearly critiqued your views which are historically recorded and in the public forum.. I do not Ad-Hom sir

....that's ok, I have broad shoulders

I am gratified that you are in good health

...but insulting me is not enough, you continue to insult a section of JREF readers who you claim are "simpler folk".

I would not dream of insulting anyone on the board, the comment was meant as satire directed at You. Satire Def: language used to convey insults or scorn; This is one of the few forums that has a populace worthy of consideration.

Again sir, I did not insult You , If you view a critique, a criticism of your views as a definition of self, not only do You have a thin skin , but you should rather Permanently absent Yourself From a public forum which is the bastion of freewheeling criticism of proposed ideas.

So you say, but unfortunately your word isn't good enough.

Your comment makes no sense.

Oh, another personal insult...you're on a roll...may I ask a question? How come a story about a Palestinian collaborator has your knickers in such a knot that you have to revert to personal insults, claims of conspiracy theories and racism? I find your responses to be waaaaay over the top.

I did not insult You , Anyone that wants to see Your" Skeptical" point of view or Your history of editorializing follow this link. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=292810

Now tell me how reasonable you are or how you are experientially neutral I do not insult or label You , a man is defined by his actions.

Happy Yom Kippur. and remember examine your own soul.

Audience?

 

[Mycroft]

Audience?

I'm attributing your comments to the Demerol. You're not usually like this.

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

I'm attributing your comments to the Demerol. You're not usually like this.

Well even tho the demerol was 15 or so hours ago You may be correct.

I try to be a smart ass and deflate pompus egos as to thier own self-rightness.

Do You think that my critique was to harsh or incorect?

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

You may be correct in Your assessment, but upon re-reading my post ( aside from some extraneous silliness ) I find no fundamental flaw.

There are certain people on the board ( which is a microcosm of life ) that have an agenda, who editorialize to their advantage regardless of truth.
I evidently have snapped at my expected 3-month threshold of reading BS.

Please feel free to critique any part and parcel of my post. One learns from one's mistakes.

 

[CBL4]

I hate to get involved in such a fun spat but

Originally posted by TillEulenspiegel
monomaniacal racism

certainly seems to put a lie to the later post

I'm Sorry how did insult you? I mearly critiqued your views which are historically recorded and in the public forum.. I do not Ad-Hom sir

CBL

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

CBL4 ,

Did you look at the link?
Again: Did you look at the link?


Mike Tyson was a wife beater.

Is that an Ad-Hom or an observation of documented historical fact?

Do you want a link besides BaaBaa- WaaaWaaa?

Does that make the factual behavior of the man a fiction? Or prehaps a condemnation off African Americans in general?

Was Hitler a diplomat?

Stop being foolish before you fall down


PS an ad-Hom is an "attack against the man". Kill the messenger .. I never said the guy was stupid or that his intellectual or physical stature was small ( in fact quite the opposite) . What I condemned were his views. You may want to read more closely before offering a criticism in the future.

Mycroft was right , but it was not the drug but rather the accommodation of...OK I'll Moderate my language..., people who are uninformed.

 

[zenith-nadir]

CBL4 , Did you look at the link? Again: Did you look at the link?

...and what's wrong with the link? Feel free to share your wisdom.

Mike Tyson was a wife beater. Is that an Ad-Hom or an observation of documented historical fact??

Ahhhh the old Mike Tyson logic trap...how cunning.

Do you want a link besides BaaBaa- WaaaWaaa?

Soooo... in english... for us simpler folk... does that mean you have an issue with the link?

Does that make the factual behavior of the man a fiction? Or prehaps a condemnation off African Americans in general? Was Hitler a diplomat? Stop being foolish before you fall down

If anyone can translate that paragraph please feel free to do so.

PS an ad-Hom is an "attack against the man". Kill the messenger .. I never said the guy was stupid or that his intellectual or physical stature was small ( in fact quite the opposite) . What I condemned were his views. You may want to read more closely before offering a criticism in the future.

And what are "my views" TillEulenspiegel?, please feel free to let us all in on "my views".

Mycroft was right , but it was not the drug but rather the accommodation of...OK I'll Moderate my language..., people who are uninformed.

Instead of moderating your language how about putting it together in coherent paragraphs.

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

Well I tried to be reasonable. I tried to be factual in my estimation of your position in regards to the topic at hand.

Like many who suffer from fictions of their own creation, I believe that the more moderate minds on the board ( and elsewhere) can see exactly your composition. I did not state a position in anathema to yours , but You have completely lived up to my expectations as of Your character.

"And what are "my views" TillEulenspiegel?, please feel free to let us all in on "my views"."

That is precisely my point , the link is a detailed description of...bites tounge...your views. I did not state them, You did, in Your own words , dated signed and concrete. Let all who view this access of your past performance in posts as a position where you define yourself.

The old adage adage "watch what You wish for..."
Till's corollary Watch what you say , for it will one day re-appear and bite You in the ass.

I do not Ad Hom but you are surely more Nadir then Zenith. Any who chances upon one of your diatribes presented as a reasonable position must surly see that as the case.

You are not a skeptic, you are not a person who follows the path of discovery , but a person of solid ideas who will brook no challenge to your self-conceived reality.


Happy Yom Kippur.
Look to Your own soul least ye lose it.

 

[zenith-nadir]

Well I tried to be reasonable. I tried to be factual in my estimation of your position in regards to the topic at hand.

HUH? You have done nothing of the kind. Reasonable is not how I would describe your song and dance in this thread.

Like many who suffer from fictions of their own creation, I believe that the more moderate minds on the board ( and elsewhere) can see exactly your composition. I did not state a position in anathema to yours , but You have completely lived up to my expectations as of Your character."And what are "my views" TillEulenspiegel?, please feel free to let us all in on "my views"." That is precisely my point , the link is a detailed description of...bites tounge...your views. I did not state them, You did, in Your own words , dated signed and concrete. Let all who view this access of your past performance in posts as a position where you define yourself.

You have an issue with "my views", then when asked to share "my views" with everyone you start speaking in tounges about how "the link" is actually the description of my views. KHALED ABU TOAMEH wrote the story in the link about a man called Yunis Owaidah. I was curious about the Kissinger reference, nothing more nothing less, and I even qualified my curiosity with "if it is true".

The old adage adage "watch what You wish for..."
Till's corollary Watch what you say , for it will one day re-appear and bite You in the ass. I do not Ad Hom but you are surely more Nadir then Zenith. Any who chances upon one of your diatribes presented as a reasonable position must surly see that as the case.

Actually I think people see a person named TillEulenspiegel take a crap all over a thread, derail it and make little or no sense at all in the process. For what purpose I leave to the readers imagination.

You are not a skeptic, you are not a person who follows the path of discovery , but a person of solid ideas who will brook no challenge to your self-conceived reality.

If the "path of TillEulenspiegel's discovery" is dropping in and taking craps on threads to derail them rather than discussing the topic then yes, I am not a person who follows the path of TillEulenspiegel's discovery.

Happy Yom Kippur. Look to Your own soul least ye lose it.

Yom Kippur is not a "happy" occasion. But you already 'knew' that.... for you are - it seems - a know-it-all.

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

Very weak, you box with Your own shadow.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/search.php?...searchid=292810
Your views are stated by your own posts on this board....argue with yourself if you want.

/ignore

 

[zenith-nadir]

Very weak, you box with Your own shadow.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/search.php?...searchid=292810
Your views are stated by your own posts on this board....argue with yourself if you want.

/ignore

Ok, so in summary..... you derail the thread and call me on "my views" but refuse to share "my views" with everyone. You won't discuss "my views" because "my views" can be found in the link and are stated by my own posts. Nor will you discuss the topic of the thread except to say that the topic of the thread reflects my views....which you won't discuss or share.

While all that nonsense is going on you take several personal shots at me, stamp your feet and in a petulant manner and close with "you box with Your own shadow". And then your coup de gras is to put me on "ignore".

Wow, it's been quite the display TillEulenspiegel....and you are calling me weak? Funny stuff