I'm a LIBERAL!?!

[Mephisto]

Re: My 2 cents

Government goes out of its way to make it troublesome for industious little guys to go into business like that. What's worse, local governments have to grant you the privilege to sell your hotdogs in the local square, which they often do based on favoritism and friendships.

Nice explanation. We could use some libertarians in my home state. Santa Fe (the whore of SW art) is a perfect example of what you're talking about.

Many years ago, Native American and Mexican artisans sold their wares openly on the plaza in Santa Fe. It was a nice thing to help the artists directly and to get to know many of the jewelry makers and silver smiths in the area. It didn't take much, some talent, determination and a blanket on which to display your wares.

Enter big business. The gallery owners and tourist traps around Santa Fe petitioned the local government to ban sales of jewelry, artifacts and art in the plaza in Santa Fe unless it was through a gallery.

The big-money middle man legally insinuated himself into the way of life of native New Mexicans and through paying paltry sums for original art and jewelry (and gaining enormous profits from rich tourists), literally ran the "little man" out of the business. Now, Santa Fe southwestern art and jewelry is primarily done by retirees who have relocated from the east coast and sell their art to other rich retirees from the east coast.

That's why I absolutely HATE most SW art! I'm too "native" to be appealing.

 

[Ladewig]

Re: My 2 cents

An example might be this: I was walking downtown the other day during sidewalks sales days and there were a couple of food vendor carts. On the side of each of those carts were no less 8 separate licencing certificates from NY State and local governments. You that those vendors had to jump through hoops and pay through the nose for the privelege of selling their hotdogs to people who want to buy them.

If no licenses were required of these food vendors, then I doubt that they would each pay the city and state the sales tax required for such a business. I also doubt that they would be easy for county health inspectors to find. Yes, if vendors sold enough tainted food, then the invisible hand of the market forces would drive them out of business, but in order to have the advantages of health inspectors, I am willing to pay more (either directly through taxes or indirectly through higher prices).

 

[Luke T.]

I've heard some "liberals" try to put forth the term "progressive" as a label for themselves. Mario Cuomo, for one.

I am over 40, and so I remain stubbornly attached to my self-label of a Conservative Republican. I am very unhappy with some of the things I see going on in my party right now, but my confidence in the People to self-correct, the greater of evils I see in alternate parties, and the aforementioned personal crustiness, keep me glued in my spot. I will not give it up. I'd rather be stubborn than rootless. Somebody has to hold the line.

 

[CBL4]

I also doubt that they would be easy for county health inspectors to find.

This is true but it is also true that it is more expensive for for the health inspectors to a large restaurant than a coffee shop but the fees are the same (at least in Eugene OR.)

My wife ran a coffee shop and wanted to store unopened syrups, sugar, cups, and other non-perishable items in a cabinet in our garage. This was considered a "food warehouse." It was prohibitively expensive to comply with the law.

She also had 1 part time employee. The employee's wage was about 1/4 the total cost of the employee. Most people in her position (e.g. the previous and next owner) paid their employee under the table or called them a partner who happen.

CBL

 

[CBL4]

Originally posted by Luke T.
I've heard some "liberals" try to put forth the term "progressive" as a label for themselves.

I prefer this label considering I read a "liberal" British magazine which is misdescribed as conservative. I tend to use the word leftist but perhaps I should switch.

Still it is foolish to have only two holes for all the pegs.

CBL

 

[jj]

Still it is foolish to have only two holes for all the pegs.

All in all, this really is the real issue. From time to time, conservatives switch what their rallying cry is, likewise liberals, and on and on.

Lately, the philosophy seems to be "per poll interval" to me. Please don't take that as approval.

 

[Luke T.]

Re: Re: I'm a LIBERAL!?!

The same reason the fascists here call me a "leftist" or sometimes a "loony leftist" or something of that sort.

So who are these "fascists", jj?

 

[Luke T.]

The reason I ask is because to me the term "fascist" is far more extreme name-calling than "liberal." I've dealt with real fascists, and they called me a "marxist". If they had called me a "liberal", I would have taken it as a compliment.

 

[Ryokan]

Americans have changed the meaning of liberal, anyway. I'm a liberal, and feel I have nothing in common with most Americans calling themselves liberals.

Both the Republican and Democratic party would be considered right wing parties in Europe. Nader's Green Party would be considered center at best.

 

[jj]

The reason I ask is because to me the term "fascist" is far more extreme name-calling than "liberal." I've dealt with real fascists, and they called me a "marxist". If they had called me a "liberal", I would have taken it as a compliment.

You've dealt with some of them here, too, Luke. You're not the only one who has visited some of those roach-infested sites.

 

[Luke T.]

You've dealt with some of them here, too, Luke. You're not the only one who has visited some of those roach-infested sites.

I just think if we are going to be calling third parties on this forum something as extreme as "fascists" then they should be identified by name and allowed to defend themselves against the label. Otherwise, I have to take the statement as an unsubstantiated claim that is ironic in the face of a complaint of being called something as tame as a "leftist" by these unnamed third party fascists.

 

[RandFan]

Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm a LIBERAL!?!

JFK I'm not sure of, I have never managed to figure out if he actually had a single goal, or if he was just reacting in real time.

Then there's his youngest brother. Oy!

JFK was staunchly anti-Communist, lowered taxes, called for personal responsibility, aided South Vietnam. I'm not sure what reacting in real time is but I have an idea. I know many Republicans and some conservatives who look fondly on the Kennedy presidency.

FWIW, I don't think JFK was conservative but then I have problems with the labels anyway.

 

[Luke T.]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm a LIBERAL!?!

JFK was staunchly anti-Communist

Residents of Quemoy and Matsu may have an idea of what jj meant by 'real time'.

edited to explain: During the 1960 campaign debates, Nixon scored major points against Kennedy because Kennedy would not commit to military support of the islands of Qemoy and Matsu off mainland China if China invaded those islands. Nixon said this basically gave China the green light to take the islands, and he was right. After assuming the Presidency, Kennedy saw the errors of his ways and stated he would support Qemoy and Matsu if they were invaded.

 

[joe1347]

Why not take one of the on-line personality profiles to find out just how liberal you are? The link below is for a quiz to gauge whether you lean more towards the red or blue.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2103764/

 

[Luke T.]

Why not take one of the on-line personality profiles to find out just how liberal you are? The link below is for a quiz to gauge whether you lean more towards the red or blue.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2103764/

I scored smack dab in the middle. But then I didn't know the answers to some of them and made a wild guess since "Don't know" was not and option.

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

Why not take one of the on-line personality profiles to find out just how liberal you are? The link below is for a quiz to gauge whether you lean more towards the red or blue.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2103764/

Middle>

It fascinates me that my knowledge of Big 12 Football gives me red points. I bet there's not a blue in Austin that would miss that one.

 

[joe1347]

I scored smack dab in the middle. But then I didn't know the answers to some of them and made a wild guess since "Don't know" was not and option.

Same here. So does that mean we're educated red-necks?

 

[billydkid]

Re: Re: My 2 cents

If no licenses were required of these food vendors, then I doubt that they would each pay the city and state the sales tax required for such a business. I also doubt that they would be easy for county health inspectors to find. Yes, if vendors sold enough tainted food, then the invisible hand of the market forces would drive them out of business, but in order to have the advantages of health inspectors, I am willing to pay more (either directly through taxes or indirectly through higher prices).

But I think it is a myth - the assumption that government health inspectors will keep you safe. There is a certain amount of stuff in life you have to take on faith. An example of that faith would be the belief that mom and pop hotdog vendor are inclined not to sell their customers unwholesome food. You certainly don't make enough money operating a hotdog cart to be able to justify being fly by night. It is hard for me to imagine that someone would buy a hotdog cart in hopes of making a quick buck before he gets found out selling rancid hotdogs.

I hold to belief that people are essentially decent though not flawless and it is only in cases where there is the opportunity for great reward (say, politics, corporate boardrooms) where essentially decent people may well be tempted to cross the line. It is funny the way we might fret about the sanitation of a corner deli and yet have relatively little concern about the motives of the people we put in positions of great power over our lives and who can benefit greatly by exploiting those positions.

 

[jj]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm a LIBERAL!?!

JFK was staunchly anti-Communist, lowered taxes, called for personal responsibility, aided South Vietnam. I'm not sure what reacting in real time is but I have an idea.

I'm suggesting that he had no principles other than what sold to the polls of the time, and that everything he did was grandstanding to the nation.

I know many Republicans and some conservatives who look fondly on the Kennedy presidency.

Yes, I can imagine.

FWIW, I don't think JFK was conservative but then I have problems with the labels anyway.

You mean like they've been so perverted, time after time, that they mean very little?

Look at what a "conservative" wants today. They are really radical reactionaries, they want to go back to the past, and force everyone else to join them.

 

[jj]

I just think if we are going to be calling third parties on this forum something as extreme as "fascists" then they should be identified by name

My opinions on this are already on the record in a variety of places on this forum.