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If Saddam Had Stayed

The Charnel Expanse said:
Quote: ... snip ... significantly strengthened al-Qaeda, increased Iranian influence, and resulted in far greater civilian deaths. ... snip ...

...and which of those things were stopped by the mystical "surge"?
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All three.

al-Qaeda's strength in Iraq, compared to what it was before the surge, has been decimated.

Iran's influence in Iraq has waned considerably.

And the number of civilian deaths was substantially reduced as a result of the surge. EVERYONE agreed about that.

Don't you know ANY history, CE? Don't you want to know? Or is wallowing more comfortable to you?
 
You have a really low threshold for "evidence", huh?

There's no proof that the IIS you cite is authentic. Hell, I can't find any mention of "Ahmad Dahestani" anywhere that doesn't refer back to that same Freeper posting.

This reminds me a lot of the Truther claim that the Hijackers are still alive.
 
The Charnel Expanse said:
But that doesn't change the fact that adhering to a multilaterally-agreed-upon withdrawal timeline is not the same as employing a 'Bush Strategy' towards Iraq.
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That's a fine point you can take up with Obama supporters. All I know is that Obama seems to want to take credit for decisions that he didn't have much to do with in the first place, and wants to ignore decisions he did make that would have made things turn out much, much worse in Iraq. Deal with that reality.
 
As someone else said with regard to that fabled IIS,

The funniest thing about this document is that it’s supposedly an Iraqi intelligence document about an interview with a source in Afghanistan, telling the Iraqis what relationship they have with Iraq. Am I the only person who finds that odd? Does the CIA interview British sources to find out if they are cooperating with the Americans? Or do they just, you know, cooperate?
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MG1962 said:
At best Saddam was agnostic possibly even an athiest. At one point when his popularity was dipping he began indulging in many Islamic observance.
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Oh he was more than *indulging*. In 1994, he began to play the "faith card" big time. He built schools that promoted mandatory Qur'an studies. He built training centers for imams. And don't forget the Saddam University of Islamic Studies. Iraq's radio stations began airing Qur'anic lessons. Alcohol was banned in restaurants. Even Baath party officials were required to take courses in the Qur'an. Murals of Saddam sprang up all over with him shown in prayer. He built three huge mosques (one was the third largest in the Muslim world) and even had a Qur'an written in his own blood.

Here's a source you might wish to read and it's conclusion:

http://hereticallibrarian.blogspot.com/2004/06/saddam-hussein-secularist.html

Monday, June 07, 2004

Saddam Hussein: Secularist?

... snip ...

the idea that Saddam's "secularism" made such a relationship [BAC - with bin Laden and al-Qaeda] an a priori impossibility can no longer be taken seriously.
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NoScotsman said:
I do. It's the sole reason I voted for him in the primaries over Hillary.

I could be wrong of course ... however, I certainly don't recall candidate Obama talking about pursuing Bush's Iraq War strategy ...
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I remember Obama promising to escalate the war in Afghanistan, only that he would return it to its original goal, that of capturing Osama bin Deadsolongitfeelslikeuptome.
 
The Charnel Expanse said:
I knew about the plot.
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Oh sure you did. :rolleyes:

The Charnel Expanse said:
My issue was with your claim that this was being planned "under Saddam's nose"
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Well given that the terrorists admitted that they first met to plan the attack IN BAGHDAD BEFORE THE INVASION, I'd say it was planned "under Saddam's nose".

The Charnel Expanse said:
thus represented a compelling case of Saddam colluding with/providing safe haven for terrorists, for which you've still offered not a shred of evidence.
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Other than the fact that the terrorist who instigated and funded the attack received medical attention in one Saddam's private hospitals after he fled Afghanistan? :rolleyes:

Other than the fact that captured Iraqi documents show that the Iraqi authorities captured a top aide to this terrorist, knew who he was, and released him on orders from Saddam? :rolleyes:

And I could go on but I'm going to let you wallow instead, CE.
 
BeAChooser said:
Oh sure you did. :rolleyes:
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Roll your eyes all you want. My recollection was vague but it was there.

Well given that the terrorists admitted that they first met to plan the attack IN BAGHDAD BEFORE THE INVASION, I'd say it was planned "under Saddam's nose".
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Yes, because everything that happens every minute of every day within a country is known by that country's government. :boggled:

Other than the fact that the terrorist who instigated and funded the attack received medical attention in one Saddam's private hospitals after he fled Afghanistan? :rolleyes:
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I saw none of this mentioned in any of the articles you linked. So again, [citation needed]
Other than the fact that captured Iraqi documents show that the Iraqi authorities captured a top aide to this terrorist, knew who he was, and released him on orders from Saddam? :rolleyes:

And I could go on but I'm going to let you wallow instead, CE.
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Are these the same "captured Iraqi documents" that you cited earlier? LOL
 
The Charnel Expanse said:
You have a really low threshold for "evidence", huh?
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LOL! You think that was all the evidence I could have supplied?

You've come to the party quite late, CE, and I'm just not interested in buying you a drink or pulling you from the mud.

You go ahead and wallow, for all I care.

The Charnel Expanse said:
There's no proof that the IIS you cite is authentic. Hell, I can't find any mention of "Ahmad Dahestani" anywhere that doesn't refer back to that same Freeper posting.
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LOL! That was from a letter posted online by the Pentagon, CE. A letter by a member of the Saddam Al Mukabarat to a superior. A letter that multiple translaters said was correctly translated in the version that was posted on Free Republic. And you want to know why you can't go back to the Pentagon website and look at the letter? Because the Pentagon shut it down because it contained information that posed a National Security risk regarding weapons of mass destruction.

And by the way, in your brief exploration of this subject, did you notice that the Pentagon released another document that proved Saddam's government was aware of an active al-Qaeda cell in Iraq well before the invasion … in fact, the cell that contained the Jordanian chemical bomb plot mastermind? :D
 
The Charnel Expanse said:
[groan]
More revisionism and speculation. Nothing to see here.
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ostrich-head-In-Sand.jpg
 
BeAChooser said:
LOL! You think that was all the evidence I could have supplied?
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None of the "evidence" you've supplied thus far amounts to anything more than debunked hokum and conjecture on your part.

LOL! That was from a letter posted online by the Pentagon, CE. A letter by a member of the Saddam Al Mukabarat to a superior. A letter that multiple translaters said was correctly translated in the version that was posted on Free Republic. And you want to know why you can't go back to the Pentagon website and look at the letter? Because the Pentagon shut it down because it contained information that posed a National Security risk regarding weapons of mass destruction.
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Yes, because everything the Pentagon and the intelligence community told us before and after the invasion turned out to be so accurate. :boggled:
"Multiple translators", huh? [citation needed]

And by the way, in your brief exploration of this subject, did you notice that the Pentagon released another document that proved Saddam's government was aware of an active al-Qaeda cell in Iraq well before the invasion … in fact, the cell that contained the Jordanian chemical bomb plot mastermind? :D
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It proved no such thing.
 
The Charnel Expanse said:
Quote:
Other than the fact that the terrorist who instigated and funded the attack received medical attention in one Saddam's private hospitals after he fled Afghanistan?

I saw none of this mentioned in any of the articles you linked. So again, [citation needed]
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LOL! You really must have had your head in the ground when all that was in the news. But I'm not going to supply you with a citation. Because surely you know how to use your browser. :D
 
BeAChooser said:
LOL! You really must have had your head in the ground when all that was in the news. But I'm not going to supply you with a citation. Because surely you know how to use your browser. :D
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Humor me, oh all-knowing one. Nothing about the attack mastermind being treated at Saddam's private hospital was mentioned in ANY of the stories you linked to. I'd think that you'd have at least given me ONE that mentioned such a thing, what with it being so crucial to the point you're trying to make.
 
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I've been dredging through google links for over half an hour now and STILL can't find anything about Jayyusi having been treated at Saddam's private hospital OR the plotting having begun prior to the U.S. invasion.
 
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