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Idf bs

"The next step included dropping a warning munition on the roof of the building, but the IAF was given the wrong coordinates and dropped the munition on the Dawiya house and then bombed it."

A warning munition!!!

FFS. This is like something out of Monty Python! Fetch the comfy Chair!!

Q. Did you purposely kill Palestinian Civilians?

A. No no no no no no no no no no no no no .... YES! yes yes yes yes yes!
 
Tin Foil Timothy said:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1239710758789&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
Click to expand...

And I noticed a really sick commercial on that Jpost page ....

A once-in-a-lifetime experience:
THE ULTIMATE MISSION TO ISRAEL

http://www.israellawcenter.org/Missions-general-information.html

An Israel atrocity and racism conference....

Among the attractions for racists includes:

* Briefings by Mossad officials and commanders of the Shin Bet.

* Inside tour of the IAF unit who carries out targeted killings.

* Observe a trial of Hamas terrorists in an IDF military court.

* Briefing by Israel's war heros who saved the country. [puke]

* Small airplane tour of the Galilee, Jeep rides in the Golan heights, water activities on Lake Kinneret, a cook-out barbecue and a Shabbat enjoying the rich religious and historic wonders of Jerusalem's Old City

I'm surprised they're not offering a bonus package to torture Palestinian Children for an extra 25 shekels a head.

What a disgusting and barbaric venture!!! Who the hell is that sick to organise such a commerical side to racist atrocities?
 
Tin Foil Timothy said:
And I noticed a really sick commercial on that Jpost page ....

A once-in-a-lifetime experience:
THE ULTIMATE MISSION TO ISRAEL

http://www.israellawcenter.org/Missions-general-information.html

An Israel atrocity and racism conference....

Among the attractions for racists includes:

* Briefings by Mossad officials and commanders of the Shin Bet.

* Inside tour of the IAF unit who carries out targeted killings.

* Observe a trial of Hamas terrorists in an IDF military court.

* Briefing by Israel's war heros who saved the country. [puke]

* Small airplane tour of the Galilee, Jeep rides in the Golan heights, water activities on Lake Kinneret, a cook-out barbecue and a Shabbat enjoying the rich religious and historic wonders of Jerusalem's Old City

I'm surprised they're not offering a bonus package to torture Palestinian Children for an extra 25 shekels a head.

What a disgusting and barbaric venture!!! Who the hell is that sick to organise such a commerical side to racist atrocities?
Click to expand...

The link doesn't work.

I'm curious what you're fussing about. I'll try later.

Sounds like an organised holiday for militaristic wankers.
Do you think I can still get a spot?:D

eta: TFT, can you do me a favour and call me Zionist apologist or something? I've been thinking about a good sigline, and I think you're just the person to provide one.
 
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Marc39 said:
The report found the IDF at fault in certain instances. When is the release date of Hamas's report?
Click to expand...

Yeah it's pretty obvious it's going to find some 'incompetence' as an excuse for what is blatant premeditated agenda.

Enough IDF members have given witness statements saying they were ordered to murder innocent Palestinians.


btw - I wouldn't trust a report where Hamas investigated itself anymore than I would trust a report where the IDF investigates itself.
 
cwalner said:
So, aside from the ad hom re: the IDF, do you have any critique of thier argument that this is legal and/or evidence to the contrary?
Click to expand...

Of course. I could care less whether it's legal or not. Legality has no bearing on whether something is right or wrong. Slavery used to be legal.
 
Tin Foil Timothy said:
Yeah it's pretty obvious it's going to find some 'incompetence' as an excuse for what is blatant premeditated agenda.
Click to expand...

I understand your reluctance to accept the word of the IDF, but the article you referrenced to made specific claims that are falsifiable. Would you care to falsify those claims?

Specifically in reference to the OP and the WP use, the IDF made specific claims that they only used WP in open fields and that such use is within international legal guidelines.

Please provide your evidence that either such use of WP is not within international legal guidelines or that IDF use of WP was not limited to those situations as claimed.
 
Tin Foil Timothy said:
Of course. I could care less whether it's legal or not. Legality has no bearing on whether something is right or wrong. Slavery used to be legal.
Click to expand...

But the IDF investigation was not to determine whether it was moral or not, it was to determine if it was legal or not.

Yes, we now consider Slavery to be wrong. That does not mean that Thomas Jefferson commited a crime by owning a slave. At that time it was legal. If you think international laws allow for immoral action then you should be more worried about changing those laws, not those nations that comply with the law in a manner you feel is not moral.

After all, you claim to be on the side of humanity, so wouldn't your efforts be better spent changing international law so that all of humanity can benefit, rather than just finding more excuses to accuse Israel of wrongdoing.
 
cwalner said:
I understand your reluctance to accept the word of the IDF, but the article you referrenced to made specific claims that are falsifiable. Would you care to falsify those claims?

Specifically in reference to the OP and the WP use, the IDF made specific claims that they only used WP in open fields and that such use is within international legal guidelines.

Please provide your evidence that either such use of WP is not within international legal guidelines or that IDF use of WP was not limited to those situations as claimed.
Click to expand...

BS!! :mad:

They are liars!! There's plenty of evidence ... I even made a search link for you.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=White+Phosphorus+Gaza&aq=f


here's a specific video of it burning in the streets and burning Palestinians

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxB4gQSIyfw

Vile Israeli War crimes!! Lying about it just makes it worse!!!
 
cwalner said:
But the IDF investigation was not to determine whether it was moral or not, it was to determine if it was legal or not.

Yes, we now consider Slavery to be wrong. That does not mean that Thomas Jefferson commited a crime by owning a slave. At that time it was legal. If you think international laws allow for immoral action then you should be more worried about changing those laws, not those nations that comply with the law in a manner you feel is not moral.

After all, you claim to be on the side of humanity, so wouldn't your efforts be better spent changing international law so that all of humanity can benefit, rather than just finding more excuses to accuse Israel of wrongdoing.
Click to expand...

Israel's immoral action by using white phosphorus to harm civilians is also against International Law though. The law already exists but Israel is taking no notice of it.

Time is better spent speaking up against immoral actions. The more people in the world that know about these immoral actions then the more likely those who flout the law as in the case of Israel will be brought to justice and the more likely new laws will be brought in where there are loopholes/omissions in the law.

But ultimately laws don't say whether something is right or wrong and they don't stop the crimes being committed.
 
Tin Foil Timothy said:
Israel's immoral action by using white phosphorus to harm civilians is also against International Law though. The law already exists but Israel is taking no notice of it.

Time is better spent speaking up against immoral actions. The more people in the world that know about these immoral actions then the more likely those who flout the law as in the case of Israel will be brought to justice and the more likely new laws will be brought in where there are loopholes/omissions in the law.
Click to expand...

Aren't you contradicting yourself? Was there a breach of international law or not?

But ultimately laws don't say whether something is right or wrong and they don't stop the crimes being committed.
Click to expand...
OK, so what exactly are you trying to do here then?

You haven't shown which law was broken, but you claim it was and you want people to know about it so that laws are enforced and new laws are made, but at the same time you say laws don't matter anyway?
 
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Tin Foil Timothy said:
Yeah it's pretty obvious it's going to find some 'incompetence' as an excuse for what is blatant premeditated agenda.
Click to expand...

Given the inherent difficulties of urban warfare combined with the added challenges presented by Hamas fighting out of uniform (causing potential confusion between combatants and non-combatants) and routinely fighting near civilians and civilian installations, it is to the IDF's credit that far more mistakes were not made nor much greater collateral damage created.

Enough IDF members have given witness statements saying they were ordered to murder innocent Palestinians.
Click to expand...

Those I'm familiar with have admitted they were never ordered to "murder innocent Pals", but, merely heard rumors of such acts, which, turns out, never occurred.

btw - I wouldn't trust a report where Hamas investigated itself anymore than I would trust a report where the IDF investigates itself.
Click to expand...

Most, if not all, armies, including the US Army, conduct their own internal investigations. Terrorist groups, such as Hamas, are not inclined to do so.
 
Pardalis said:
Aren't you contradicting yourself? Was there a breach of international law or not?

OK, so what exactly are you trying to do here then?

You haven't shown which law was broken, but you claim it was and you want people to know about it so that laws are enforced and new laws are made, but at the same time you say laws don't matter anyway?
Click to expand...
Where's the Central Scrutinizer? I understand it's his job to enforce the laws that haven't been passed yet.
 
Tin Foil Timothy said:
Time is better spent speaking up against immoral actions. The more people in the world that know about these immoral actions then the more likely those who flout the law as in the case of Israel will be brought to justice and the more likely new laws will be brought in where there are loopholes/omissions in the law.
Click to expand...

What of Turkey's and Syria's immoral actions against the Kurds, or are they not on your radar screen given the Israelis don't factor in? There are at least 5x as many Kurds as Pals, which means there ought to be 5x as much outrage. Is that a pin dropping I hear?
 
Tin Foil Timothy said:
BS!! :mad:

They are liars!! There's plenty of evidence ... I even made a search link for you.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=White+Phosphorus+Gaza&aq=f


here's a specific video of it burning in the streets and burning Palestinians

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxB4gQSIyfw

Vile Israeli War crimes!! Lying about it just makes it worse!!!
Click to expand...

I checked out the videos and not a single one of them said even remotely definitively that what was being shown was actually white phosphorus, only that the 'beleived' it was white phosphorus. I find this lack of certainity about what the substance actually was a bit suspicous since in one case there was video of the smoldering remains of whatever it was on the streets in Gaza captured on video by apparantly UK journalists (the reporter spoke with a british accent) and they did not think to confirm that the material was in fact white phosphorus.

I'm sorry but your 'evidence' in the form of those videos is the same as your posts. It is no more than unsubstantiated accusations. I am especially disheartened by the fact that with video of smoldering remains of the weapon in the Gaza streets, nobody thought that it would help thier case to get a sample of it tested so they could claim with certainty that in fact the IDF used WP in civilian areas. In this you can't claim an Israeli cover-up either, because you showed us the video of the 'damning' evidence right there on the Gaza streets with no IDF nearby to stop them from collecting a sample to prove that it was in fact WP.
 
Tin Foil Timothy said:
And I noticed a really sick commercial on that Jpost page ....

A once-in-a-lifetime experience:
THE ULTIMATE MISSION TO ISRAEL

http://www.israellawcenter.org/Missions-general-information.html

An Israel atrocity and racism conference....

Among the attractions for racists includes:

* Briefings by Mossad officials and commanders of the Shin Bet.

* Inside tour of the IAF unit who carries out targeted killings.

* Observe a trial of Hamas terrorists in an IDF military court.

* Briefing by Israel's war heros who saved the country. [puke]

* Small airplane tour of the Galilee, Jeep rides in the Golan heights, water activities on Lake Kinneret, a cook-out barbecue and a Shabbat enjoying the rich religious and historic wonders of Jerusalem's Old City

I'm surprised they're not offering a bonus package to torture Palestinian Children for an extra 25 shekels a head.
Click to expand...

It's hard to find Palestinian children because Hamas is constantly human-shielding them. I did hear, however, that refreshments include the blood of Palestinian children, a favorite Israeli beverage.
 
Jeez, it's a veritable swarm of Zionist Apologists buzzing around firing nonsense and vacuous rhetoric at the issue.

Marc39 takes the prize for the most idiotic arguments though. The rest come close.
 
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