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Identical Twins

What I can't believe is the number of people who ask me if I have identical twins and I tell them, no, they are boy/girl and boy/girl twins are never identical and they reply boy/girl twins most certainly can be identical. After 17 years I don't bother with trying to explain anymore.

That's really sad! I'm afraid for this world somedays.

Connections are also found between identical twins who have been separated at birth. Dorothy Lowe and Bridget Harrison were separated in 1945, and did not meet until 1979, when they were flown over from Britain for an investigation by a psychologist at the University of Minnesota. (8 answer to met, 34) They found that when they met they were both wearing seven rings on their hands, two bracelets on one wrist, a watch and a bracelet on the other. They married on the same day, had worn identical wedding dresses and carried the same flowers. Dorothy had named her son Richard Andrew and her daughter Catherine Louise; Bridget had named her son Andrew Richard and her daughter Karen Louise. (10处 similar answer this unless they themselves do not necessarily, children) In fact, she had wanted to call her Catherine. Both had a cat called Tiger. They also had a string of similar mannerisms when they were nervous.

Having a cat named Tiger is not all that uncommon. How badly are they reaching for a commonness if they have to count rings on their fingers?

On the other hand being married on the same day and the children's names (not about what they might have named them) is a bit odd.

I'm sure it wasn't the exact same style of wedding dress and flowers. But wedding styles like children's names run a cycle. The children's names are not unusual ones. I work with parents and children, and for a while there if I saw a Christopher I would be right most of the time his middle name was Ryan or they would go the other way around, Ryan Christopher. Nicole was the middle name for just about every "cute" female name for a while also. When I was growing up, the only three middle names for girls were Marie or Ann or Lynn.

The nervous habits is nothing as that might be genetic.

Still since you can't read the study, it might be totally made up. Also do they include the millions of things that they are unalike in?

Susan
 
Oliver Sacks and the Idiot Savant Twins

Now this may be the strangest story of twins as recorded by psychiatrist Oliver Sacks and a pair of idiot savant Twins named Michael and John:

Excerpts from Chapter 23 of Sacks' The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat

When I first met the twins, John and Michael, in 1966 in a state hospital, they were already well known. They had been on radio and television, and made the subject of detailed scientific and popular reports ([1],[2]). They had even, I suspected, found their way into science fiction, a little 'fictionalised', but essentially as portrayed in the accounts that had been published [3].

The twins, who were then twenty-six years old, had been in institutions since the age of seven, variously diagnosed as autistic, psychotic or severely retarded. Most of the accounts concluded that, as idiots savants go, there was 'nothing much to them' -except for their remarkable 'documentary' memories of the tiniest visual details of their own experience, and their use of an unconscious, calendrical algorithm that enabled them to say at once what day of the week a date far in the past or future would fall. this is the view taken by Steven Smith, in his comprehensive and imaginative book, The Great Mental Calculators (1983). There have been, to my knowledge, no further studies of the twins since the mid-Sixties, the brief interest they aroused being quenched by the apparent 'solution' of the problems they presented.


* * *
It is recorded of Sir Herbert Oakley, the nineteenth-century Edinburgh professor of music, that once, taken to a farm, he heard a pig squeak and instantly cried 'G sharp!' Someone ran to the piano, and G sharp it was. My own first sight of the 'natural' powers, and 'natural' mode of the twins, came in a similar, spontaneous, and (I could not help feeling) rather comic manner.

A box of matches on their table fell, and discharged its contents on the floor: '111,' they both cried simultaneously; and then, in a murmur, John said '37'. Michael repeated this, John said it a third time and stopped. I counted the matches - it took me some time - and there were 111.

'How could you count the matches so quickly?' I asked. 'We didn't count,' they said. 'We saw the 111.'

Similar tales are told of Zacharias Dase, the number prodigy, who would instantly call out '183' or '79' if a pile of peas was poured out, and indicate as best he could - he was also a dullard - that he did not count the peas, but just 'saw' their number, as a whole, in a flash.>

'And why did you murmur '37', and repeat it three times?' I asked the twins. They said in unison, '37, 37, 37, 111'.

And this, if possible, I found even more puzzling. That they should see 111 - '111-ness' - in a flash was extraordinary, but perhaps no more extraordinary than Oakley's 'G sharp' - a sort of 'absolute pitch', so to speak, for numbers. But they had then gone on to 'factor' the number 111 - without having any method, without even 'knowing' (in the ordinary way) what factors meant. Had I not already observed that they were incapable of the simplest calculations, and didn't 'understand' (or seem to understand) what multiplication or division was? Yet now, spontaneously, they had divided a compound number into three equal parts.

'How did you work that out?' I said, rather hotly. They indicated, as best they could, in poor, insufficient terms - but perhaps there are no words to correspond to such things - that they did no 'work it out', but just 'saw' it, in a flash. John made a gesture with two outstretched fingers and his thumb, which seemed to suggest that they had spontaneously trisected the number, or that it 'came apart' of its own accord, into these three equal parts, by a sort of spontaneous, numerical 'fission'. They seemed surprised at my surprise - as if I were somehow blind; and John's gesture conveyed an extraordinary sense of immediate, felt reality. Is it possible, I said to myself, that they can somehow 'see' the properties, not in a conceptual, abstract way, but as qualities, felt, sensuous, in some immediate, concrete way? And not simply isolated qualities - like '111-ness' - but qualities of relationship? Perhaps in somewhat the same way as Sir Herbert Oakley might have said 'a third', or 'a fifth'.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cach...s+twins+Michael+John&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
 
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Ok, Zorro. You've posted some interesting examples. What do you think it all means? What conclusions do you draw? You haven't commented at all on what you think the significance of these facts is.
 
Seems to be a mixed reaction here about whether or not this subject is woo.

The example of the savant twins, written about by Oliver Sacks, certainly isn't woo. Perhaps that example has more to do with the whole notion of savants than twins.

The case of Dorothey and Bridget both having the same wedding date, and naming their children the same, is odd. I understand that two strangers having the same birthdate is not uncommon, but a wedding date is different. People don't choose their birthdates but they do choose wedding dates; likewise, names.

The subject of idioglossia is interesting in the example of Ginny & Gracie. At the age of six, they still weren't speaking English. According to the rest of the article in Time, the two had to be separated for each to learn to understand English.

The Jim brothers is probably the least remarkable - a lot of coincidences, and probably nothing more.

I guess my overall point is that not everything peculiar should be immediately written off as woo.
 
When I first met the twins, John and Michael, in 1966 in a state hospital, they were already well known. They had been on radio and television, and made the subject of detailed scientific and popular reports ([1],[2]). They had even, I suspected, found their way into science fiction, a little 'fictionalised', but essentially as portrayed in the accounts that had been published [3].
The "fictionalized" account they're talking about is one of Vonnegut's novels, isn't it? IIRC, in the story, each twin apart was unremarkable. They only had their savant characteristics when they were together.
 
The case of Dorothey and Bridget both having the same wedding date, and naming their children the same, is odd. I understand that two strangers having the same birthdate is not uncommon, but a wedding date is different. People don't choose their birthdates but they do choose wedding dates; likewise, names.

"June wedding". There is a season for weddings so 2 women having the same marriage age being wed on the same day isn't out of the ordinary.

The names also go in trends, there's a top 10 of boy and girl names that come out every year. So if they were married around the same time, following children born roughly the same cultural bracket timeframe*, the names are likely to be the same. They named the kids Andrew and Christine, that's hardly a hit as big as both naming the kids Loquatia and Pilot Inspector. How many Madisons or Mackenzies are in kindergarten now?
*and if either cousin was born in the same month, that would have been counted as a hit, now it isn't mentioned.

Here:
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/
 
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There are three key problems with these fun stories:

1. The MTS is voluntary - adult twins who don't get along (ie: are very different) just don't participate. This has always been a major problem.

2. Most of the twins separated at birth had been reunited prior to the study, and therefore had many years to change their preferences for, say, beer, and also to conflate childhood memories. There's just too much contamination to accept the similarities as scientific findings.

3. A lot of the 'unexplained' is coincidence. Some people have a lot of problems with the concept of coincidence.
 
What I can't believe is the number of people who ask me if I have identical twins and I tell them, no, they are boy/girl and boy/girl twins are never identical and they reply boy/girl twins most certainly can be identical. After 17 years I don't bother with trying to explain anymore.

Being a twin, this concept boggles my mind, as to how anyone can not understand what identical twins MEAN. My sister and i are fraternal (we dont look alike, we dont sound alike, im taller than her, she's heavier than me, she has red brown hair, I have pure chocolate brown hair, etc).

And they still ask us if we are identical.
 
"June wedding". There is a season for weddings so 2 women having the same marriage age being wed on the same day isn't out of the ordinary.

There are only so many Saturdays in June (and the rest of the year as well)

Considering they are the same age, it is not all that strange that right after high school or college they would marry, and June is the month. Maybe Valentine's Day fell on a Saturday that year? I know they didn't have to marry on a Saturday, but it is the most likely day.

YEAH - Post 700!

Susan
 
In "Examining Psychic Phenomena", Professor Allen Stewart Konigsberg describes the case of the separated twins, who, when the twin in Chicago took a shower, the one in NY got clean.

I can think of much better uses to the tele-transference of physical manipulation of the body than showering.

"Well, it's almost 1:00. I'm off to give my speech!"

"What time will that be?"

"Well, it's scheduled for 15 minutes after the meeting starts, so probably around 1:15."

"Ok, cya!"

Around 1:15, Jimmy's gonna get a big surprise...
 

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