ICE uses church hypothermia shelter as a suspect trap

[chrispy]

Just a question out of curiosity. I have a friend living in my (1/2 the year) town in Guatemala. He was deported for drug offenses a few years back. We actually lived int he same city in the US but didn't know each other. English is his first language (his Spanish is maybe 60-70%). But, his parents were illegal and he was, too. They never tried for citizenship. So, my friend who is now sober, speaks iffy Spanish, has his entire leg tattooed as an American flag now lives in a country he doesn't even remember. Drugs. No violence. Do you think he should have been deported? No judgement on you, just curious as to your thinking after the previous statement.

For honesty, he was convicted 3 times for possession, and once for distribution. 3 times for pot, once for meth.

 

[deadrose]

One thing I see being missed is they've made some changes, for instance using a fake social security card or number has recently changed from a misdemeanor to a felony. So thousands of immigrants became felons because they got jobs and paid taxes.

Also looking at that ACLU map of ICE enforcement zones, it appears they concluded there's an international border in Puget Sound so that they can extend their reach sufficiently inland. I wonder if that makes Vashon Island a separate country?

 

[Loss Leader]

Makes sense.

Are there gangs of Jews running around killing people and smuggling 90% of heroin in the US across the Mexican border?

No. Ecstasy, hashish and diamonds yes. Heroin, no.

 

[Fudbucker]

Not what was being discussed.

It certainly was. There was a claim that

Someone in the US without papers is not eligible for public assistance, meaning no taxpayer dollars are going to support them.

This is demonstrably false. People here illegally are supported by hospitals, schools, police, fire fighters, etc.

 

[Reheat]

That's your evidence? You talked to a family at Wal-Mart? That's not a very convincing argument. In fact I'm pretty sure you were primed for confirmation bias.

I'm very sure you are wrong.

Reheat: Forgot to ask what you observed that made it clear the parents spoke nearly no English.

See above.

Furthermore, don't make assumptions about me. I have spent several years living in non-English speaking Countries. My recently deceased Green Card holding wife was not a native English Speaker and spoke another language with her friends. I am now in a non-English speaking Country, so don't infer that I'm stupid or biased against anything other than white people.

I do not know exactly what kind of cards these people were using, only that they were not paying cash or check or credit card. When I typed that anecdote I had forgotten the name of the EBT card, but that's what they were using.

I was not aware that only US Citizens could receive EBT type cards. Is that true for all public assistance? It's a very broad subject for searches.

I know for a fact that legal immigrants have to prove financial responsibility prior to immigration. Sure, people can lose their jobs, but the following made me rather suspicious.

These people obviously had several different orders as the oldest kid was instructing the cashier on the separation of orders and a different card was being used to pay for them. While I could be wrong my assumption was that they were shopping for different families.

I don't resent temporary assistance for folks having a hard time, but I do resent abuse of the system either for illegals or anyone else able to work for a living.

 

[mgidm86]

Just a question out of curiosity. I have a friend living in my (1/2 the year) town in Guatemala. He was deported for drug offenses a few years back. We actually lived int he same city in the US but didn't know each other. English is his first language (his Spanish is maybe 60-70%). But, his parents were illegal and he was, too. They never tried for citizenship. So, my friend who is now sober, speaks iffy Spanish, has his entire leg tattooed as an American flag now lives in a country he doesn't even remember. Drugs. No violence. Do you think he should have been deported? No judgement on you, just curious as to your thinking after the previous statement.

For honesty, he was convicted 3 times for possession, and once for distribution. 3 times for pot, once for meth.

I may have to continue my answer later, I'm expecting a guest soon.

Off the top of my head - I am not in favor of seeking people out for smaller drug offenses, if that is what his were. It isn't practical.

If he was caught dealing then yes, he should be deported at that time, especially with priors of any kind.

It doesn't matter how he lives now, at the time he was a drug dealer and broke the law. If I went to another country and did that I would expect to pay the price.

To answer a possible follow up question - US citizens are also returned to their country after release from prison.

I am fine with ignoring/helping otherwise law abiding illegals stay on a case by case basis. Career criminals though, gang bangers and pretty much anyone caught breaking the law can leave.

Who can stay and who cannot - I would like to consider this a bit more, as I'm typing this in a rush. For now, convince us we should let you stay.

Full honesty from me:
I sponsored someone who immigrated from Brazil. We paid a small attorney fee ($1200 I think), she was educated and a law abiding citizen of Brazil and a productive immigrant here.

Did medical screening, went to all the right government offices.

I was also financially responsible for her, basically forever. If she ever went on welfare I would have to pay it all, unless she became a citizen. She is now a citizen (whew!).

Again, I'm more concerned with stopping the flow of illegals. Actively finding the most dangerous of them, I'm fine with.

Anyways, I'll try and expand on this later. I've been preparing a new thread for a few days haha Just not sure I should bother with it.

 

[rwguinn]

Nothing. I grew up in Las Cruces, and had (and still have) relatives in Albuquerque, so I've been back and forth many times in my life. I was amused at the description, because I remember that being quite the long boring drive. I recommend stopping at the Owl Bar and Cafe on the way, if you're ever going that way yourself. Or a Blake's, but I always liked the Owl better.

You had to go and do it, didn't you. I don't remember the Owl, but I'll take a Blake's Green Chileburger over What-a-burger or that idiot In-N-Out place, any day. and I'm 640 miles from the nearest Blakes...

I presume Newtons Bit means the northbound I-25 checkpoint up by Hatch.

Likely the one.There's another one at White Sands, and I believe there's one on I10 between LC and Deming. And you can't get out of El Paso without going through a checkpoint

No, there are other ways. They just take longer.

What part of effective you got problems with? It's already 240 miles, and you gotta go around WSMR, or into the Gila. and besides, who the hell would want to go through Carrizozo (unless you need some really good cherry cider)? Or Silver City? (spent the best 6 years of my life in Las Cruces...)

 

[Newtons Bit]

What international border, the coastline?

Yes. Look at the ACLU webpage I linked. Anything within 100 miles of any coastline or border is a "border area".

 

[Reheat]

Here's an article about the 12 billion illegal immigrants donate to the feds every year.

You are robbing yourself of critical knowledge by not seeking evidence for or against your unsupported claims.

Ok, I've read the article. Now tell me the following:

An undocumented illegal does not have a valid Social Security number, so how does anyone know that they pay income taxes or specifically how much?

The article says many are home owners. Really? Then they must have paid cash for their home. Banks require a Social Number to get an account and I don't think most of these folks have enough assets to obtain a mortgage.

My wife operated a business some years ago and she hired a couple of illegals with fake Social Security cards, until I stopped it. So, I know a little about the subject, which may not be totally current. Most of them live in large numbers in rental property. Sometimes several families live together in order to save $$.

Most send $$ to their families in their native Country using money orders or some other untraceable method perhaps cash in the mail. I don't have total knowledge of how they do this, but they have told me they do this. It is fairly common knowledge. I eagerly await your response.

 

[Noztradamus]

Talk about splitting hairs. "We didn't go into the church or stand right outside the church, the church was simply the target."

The rules are leave the church proper, lose the right of sanctuary.

In any case James I abolished the right in 1623.

 

[fuelair]

Let's cut to the chase: A lot of the Trumpets here just don't like people with Brown skins and funny names.

Or red, or yellow, or black or olive..................... And many are not fond of Albinos (too white).

 

[Noztradamus]

What international border, the coastline?

The 12 mile national limit, rather than the 200 mile economic limit.

 

[fuelair]

When LEO target specific individuals, they know who they are and where they are. This was a general sweep of "suspects" (meaning everyone who looked Latino). The article makes that clear. They weren't asking for "Pedro Sanchez", they were papering brown-skinned people in general.

At least you have concern about this form of harassing people unfairly!!!!!

 

[fuelair]

No. Ecstasy, hashish and diamonds yes. Heroin, no.

I do want to see the diamond market ruined, all the held back ones forced to be released so the price can plummet dramatically to where it should have always been. And no more control on the supply.

 

[A'isha]

You had to go and do it, didn't you. I don't remember the Owl, but I'll take a Blake's Green Chileburger over What-a-burger or that idiot In-N-Out place, any day. and I'm 640 miles from the nearest Blakes...

Darn it, now I have to plan a trip to visit my cousins just so I can get a real Green Chile Cheeseburger again.

Likely the one.There's another one at White Sands, and I believe there's one on I10 between LC and Deming. And you can't get out of El Paso without going through a checkpoint

I don't remember a checkpoint between Cruces and El Paso, or the one to Alamogordo, though I definitely remember the one near Deming, because for some unfathomable reason my dad always took us to the Duck Race every year.

What part of effective you got problems with? It's already 240 miles, and you gotta go around WSMR, or into the Gila. and besides, who the hell would want to go through Carrizozo (unless you need some really good cherry cider)? Or Silver City?

Well, if you were trying to avoid a checkpoint, you could always try to go the long way around, though I guess that wouldn't work too well if there actually is a checkpoint on 70.

(spent the best 6 years of my life in Las Cruces...)

Speaking of places to eat that I desperately miss, did you ever get to Chope's, in La Mesa, during your time there?

 

[Pterodactyl]

Couple questions this thread brings to mind. Be real with me.


1. Just out of curiosity, where should immigration officials look for illegal immigrants if not in places they are believed to frequent? It would seem to be a waste of government funds for immigration officials to ignore such locations.

2. Is the potential inconvenience of attempting to obtain the identification of a citizen or otherwise legal immigrant really the impetus for demanding a halt to such activities, or is it just that people are against immigration enforcement generally, and these scenarios simply provide a convenient argument against?

I'm not arguing for more or less enforcement either way, Im just curious if people think immigration officials should attempt to actually do their jobs.

 

[varwoche]

... I observed and listened to their interactions with the cashier. That was enough to know they didn't speak English. Any adult who has been in the US for more than a few months should at least speak some English unless they only patronize ethic businesses.

My parents-in-law were Mexican immigrants become US citizens. They lived in a US border town for 20 years or so, then moved to east San Jose (CA), which was a not-so-little Mexico, where they had lived for several years when I first met them. The mom didn't speak English. The dad spoke a little, but he avoided it like the plague. (I think he was embarassed.)

Having grown up and lived in places with significant hispanic population, this was commonplace.

 

[marplots]

My parents-in-law were both US citizens who immigrated from Mexico. They lived in a US border town for 20 years or so, then moved to east San Jose (CA), which was a not-so-little Mexico, where they had lived for several years when I first met them. The mom didn't speak English. The dad spoke a little, but he avoided it like the plague. (I think he was embarassed.)

Having grown up and lived in places with significant hispanic population, this was commonplace.

Were they ever harassed by ICE?

 

[varwoche]

Were they ever harassed by ICE?

I don't know.

 

[mgidm86]

At least you have concern about this form of harassing people unfairly!!!!!

So do a lot of people including myself, if that is actually what is going on. Still waiting for actual evidence. I already know how it appeared to the reverend, that is not evidence. I'm not even saying it wasn't how it appeared, just prove it.

Other points:
Why would ICE choose such a location over other possible targets? I see more people standing outside Home Depot - they only "harassed" what, eight and arrested two?

Is this the only story we can find where this has happened near a church?

ICE has denied they are doing this (see above), there is no actual evidence that they are. All I need is a quote from an official saying, "we had no idea who we would find in the church"

Provide that and I will be upset right along with you. Until then I will be hanging out with my guest for the evening - a beautiful Belgian Malinois. Documented and born in the US