ICE uses church hypothermia shelter as a suspect trap

[Babbylonian]

Thanks to our delightful Supreme Court, immigration enforcement officers automatically have reasonable suspicion against everyone within 100 miles of an international border.

Here's the thing, though: If ICE was enforcing legal status checks against everyone without regard to physical characteristics, it would at least be fair (I'd still be against it because I have no interest in living in a police state, even one in which I'm not hassled because I'm a lily-white male). That is not, however, what they're doing, mainly because the government knows that the backlash would be huge and the practice would be stopped once they'd inconvenienced and harassed enough white people with money to raise a stink.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Presupposing "stop and identify" statutes (not currently in all states) work into this, people entering or present in a shelter are immediately suspect of having committed a crime? That's it?

As for states without s&i, what of that?

 

[Minoosh]

I'm pretty sure just being alive is "proof of birth."

Dang it, marplots!

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

From the story it sounds like ICE ran fingerprints at the scene and kept those who showed up as wanted in their database. No ID involved, just biometrics and positive hits. Arguably, someone who was here illegally, but who wasn't in the ICE database, would be sent on their way. That's not in the story, but my extrapolation.

IF that's what happened, it's less outrageous than I thought because my usual complaint is that you can't tell if someone is a citizen or not if they simply remain silent. There is nothing particularly "citizeny" to make the determination. But if someone is already in ICE's database as an offender, then all bets are off. This sounds like what I want - putting the onus on ICE to prove status instead of on whomever they are questioning.

The situation is different at the actual border, where ICE can make me prove my status. If I can't, they can deny me entry. Once I'm in the US however, I gain the same default status as everyone else in the US and the burden of proof shifts.

So change lawsuits over false deportation to lawsuits over violating one's right against unwarranted search and seizure and the ED costs. Still costing taxpayers a lot of money. ...

... when the less costly approach is to make employers use eVerify.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Actually the Patriot Act probably means feds can do anything they damn well please. With complete lack of transparency.

But the Constitution doesn't.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Thanks to our delightful Supreme Court, immigration enforcement officers automatically have reasonable suspicion against everyone within 100 miles of an international border.

Given we declare a 200 mile ocean limit, this was not within 100 miles of a border.

 

[Newtons Bit]

Here's the thing, though: If ICE was enforcing legal status checks against everyone without regard to physical characteristics, it would at least be fair (I'd still be against it because I have no interest in living in a police state, even one in which I'm not hassled because I'm a lily-white male). That is not, however, what they're doing, mainly because the government knows that the backlash would be huge and the practice would be stopped once they'd inconvenienced and harassed enough white people with money to raise a stink.

I drive through the checkpoint between Las Cruces and Albuquerque once every couple of years or so. The immigrations folks generally look in and then wave me through. Sometimes they ask "US Citizens?", and then wave me through when I say yes.

I'm not sure if being white is what gets me waved through every time, or the fact that my car has no hidey-holes in it. Maybe it's both. But here's the kicker, those guys are almost always Hispanic.

 

[Minoosh]

For all of those opposing me on this issue, YOU pay the freaking taxes to support these illegal free loaders.

Here's an article about the 12 billion illegal immigrants donate to the feds every year.

You are robbing yourself of critical knowledge by not seeking evidence for or against your unsupported claims.

 

[sts60]

Illegal immigrants have no civil rights at all.

No right to emergency care? No right to not be beat up or killed? No right to life and the pursuit of happiness? (You want them to have liberty in their own country; I got that part.)

I've run people in my fire/EMS gig that may very well be here illegally. I don't care, not in that context. They are my fellow human beings and yours, not to mention that most of them are here to work and didn't just come here to screw around and sponge off other taxpayers - most of them pay taxes in one form of another.

If we're going to enforce immigration laws even more than they've been enforced, fine, but let's do it as humanely as possible. Targeting people using emergency shelters to keep alive, and following kids home from school so as to deport Mom or Dad, is cheap and easy, but is it really the smartest, most humane approach? We have a lot of self-professed Christians in this Administration or eagerly supporting it; how do they reconcile this approach with, say Matthew 25:40?

And don't give me this "bleeding heart" crap. I'm all for a sane immigration policy, some variation of which we might have had years ago except for rejection by a vocal minority. But everything this clusterfrick of an Administration - this gang of thieves, crackpots, con men, Klansmen, half-wits, and traitors - does that is even remotely aligned with good policy is done in the most malevolent and incompetent way imaginable.

You say you want others to pay extra tax for supporting certain rights for illegal immigrants? No need; we're all going to pay a couple of extra effective taxes: first, the extra money (or deficit spending) for walls and deportation surges; second, the extra money we're going to pay at the store and for lots of services.

I'm more or less OK with paying the latter, as it will simply reflect the true cost of doing business without an artificially cheap labor pool. I'm not OK with the first, as it reflects bad policy and bad implementation, driven by bad people at the top. But no matter what I think, you, me, and our fellow Americans are going to pay it the way things are going. Enjoy.

 

[Babbylonian]

I drive through the checkpoint between Las Cruces and Albuquerque once every couple of years or so. The immigrations folks generally look in and then wave me through. Sometimes they ask "US Citizens?", and then wave me through when I say yes.

I'm not sure if being white is what gets me waved through every time, or the fact that my car has no hidey-holes in it. Maybe it's both. But here's the kicker, those guys are almost always Hispanic.

ETA: Deleted because I don't know my New Mexico cities very well.

 

[fuelair]

"I had to show ID to buy beer, so other people should have to show ID to not freeze to death!" is one of the most sickeningly heartless arguments I've ever seen.

I've heard worse but fully agree with you. I happily live where most people around me do not have that attitude. I like it here!!!

 

[fuelair]

I think Melania often goes to Florida, so she's one that is taking your advice.

It is odd given her visa thing which appears never was legally cleared up. Hopefully, if she divorces the orange **** she will get everything it owns!!!!!!
I look forward to the headlines!!!!!!!

 

[fuelair]

Your impression is wrong. You have to show proof of birth to obtain a Driver's License. There's more than one way to do that.



As I said below, they'll have a warm place to stay while they're being questioned.

You are clearly all heart .

 

[Minoosh]

I have a Walmart near me, which I occasionally use because it's convenient. Recently, I followed a Latino family thru the Checkout line. The kids spoke some English because i spoke with them. The parents (I presume) obviously spoke very little. They had a ton of groceries, which were paid for with a fist full of food stamp type cards.

That's your evidence? You talked to a family at Wal-Mart? That's not a very convincing argument. In fact I'm pretty sure you were primed for confirmation bias.

Look, there are nuances that maybe people farther from the border don't understand. It might have been a mixed-status family. It's also possible to not speak much English even if you're in the country legally. So you saw a family with some sort of food-stampish thing. They are doing the most responsible thing they could be doing: Buying low-cost groceries is by far the cheapest way to feed a family. The stamps also could be WIC points, I'm pretty sure, which are good for milk and some other products to keep kids from going hungry. The point is, you don't even have a very good anecdote, because you may have misread the situation entirely. Kudos for engaging with the kids, though.

Look in their carts sometime. Mexicans are big on vegetables, large cuts of beef, store brands etc. and often are very good at stretching out food dollars.

Now, in order to legally immigrate into the US, one has to prove they are financially able to support themselves. That is a requirement for legal immigration.

People with green cards can lose their jobs, too. Or have a medical crisis or any number of issues that leave them in need of temporary help to feed their kids.

It's no freaking wonder we are going broke. So, if you want to support these freeloaders be my guest. But, you pay the freaking taxes to support them. I suggest you voluntarily pay an addition several hundred $$ more tax this year.

You sound so angry. Do a little research on the pros, cons and contexts of your assumptions. Many people are misinformed about how federal money is spent, or about the taxes illegal immigrants pay. Don't cheat yourself of knowledge.

 

[Minoosh]

Reheat: Forgot to ask what you observed that made it clear the parents spoke nearly no English.

 

[Newtons Bit]

Given we declare a 200 mile ocean limit, this was not within 100 miles of a border.

Huh? Fairfax Country, VA is within 100 miles of the "border", according to the feds.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Football here in the UK is called football because it is a game played with a ball that is controlled mostly by using ones foot.

What is known as football in the US should really be called something else instead, if we are basing the nomenclature on "english skills"

Hand Egg.

 

[BardKesnit]

How in the hell do you know they just didn't say hello and waited for a response in English?

Being able to speak English is not a requirement for legal status. There is no English test to become a green card holder, and the English test for citizenship can be waived if the applicant has a medical condition that makes it impossible for them to learn English.

For all of those opposing me on this issue, YOU pay the freaking taxes to support these illegal free loaders.

Someone in the US without papers is not eligible for public assistance, meaning no taxpayer dollars are going to support them. However, undocumented workers do pay taxes.

I have a Walmart near me, which I occasionally use because it's convenient. Recently, I followed a Latino family thru the Checkout line. The kids spoke some English because i spoke with them. The parents (I presume) obviously spoke very little. They had a ton of groceries, which were paid for with a fist full of food stamp type cards.

They had an EBT card, which would show they are documented.

This isn't new territory. Gang colors/tats are more likely found on gang members. Prostitutes dress in sexually suggestive clothing. Drug dealers walk around asking people if they want to buy drugs. None of these characteristics constitute final proof, but I'd say they were on the scale of "reasonable" somewhere.

Where is the evidence that "trying to avoid freezing to death" = "undocumented?"

Any adult who has been in the US for more than a few months should at least speak some English unless they only patronize ethic businesses.

English is one of the hardest languages to learn. It takes more than "a few months" to become proficient enough to function. Also, as I said above, being able to speak English is not a requirement for a green card or citizenship. Heck, there are parts of Pennsylvania where German ("Pennsylvania Dutch") is the local language - and they are citizens by birth!

And why shouldn't someone patronize ethnic businesses? Immigrants have been doing just that since before the U.S. existed. For someone who has only recently arrived, being surrounded by familiar sights and smells can make the transition easier.

Illegal immigrants have no civil rights at all.

Eh... No. The Constitution applies to everyone in the US.

 

[dudalb]

Let's cut to the chase: A lot of the Trumpets here just don't like people with Brown skins and funny names.

 

[ChristianProgressive]

If you want to catch fish, you have to go where the fish are. We pay these people to catch fish.

And if a few homeless people or other people needing emergency services die along the way because they're scared off it's just "collateral damage", right?

I know! Let's literally start baiting traps! Set out food in poor areas and take anyone who comes for the food in for questioning!

And, again, aren't the homeless more likely to not have ID?

Well who cares if "those people" suffer and/or die? They're surplus population in any event... [/sarc]

Let's just say that I'm glad you're not on the Supreme Court.

What's unfortunate is that people like Oscar Martinez (the man with a green card quoted in the article) won't sue ICE for the patently illegal harassment. These scumbag agents won't stop until they're told to do so, and they won't be told to do so until someone who respects the law is running the show or until those in charge are forced to do so by court order.

The regime is already ignoring court orders.

If ends don't justify means, then what does?

Some things are simply wrong, no matter the reason.

I partially agree with you, but on the other hand they frequently have Official looking Social Security Cards that are difficult to detect as fake. I can assure that most legitimate companies will not hire them, but some in obscure smaller companies will. We just recently had two not so small landscape companies near where I live that were put out of business for hiring illegals. However, if you've read the thread you'll notice a predominate support on supposedly humanitarian grounds. I hope they keep it up as they'll continue to lose elections, just like they have in the past. They are near totally out of any political power and are now lashing out without realizing why they have no political power either in Congress, the Presidency, or in States.

You people only have political power in the WH because of Russian intervention and an outdated, fundamentally unjust EC plus a goodly amount of your own election fraud, the last of which also explains your power in Congress and the States.