ICE to Catholics: Go to Hell

Craig4 said:
If you can think of a better way to dehumanize a group of people, I'd be delighted to hear it. I want Trump supporters to be the hated other.
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Why? You think that will cure them of supporting Trump or only make them dig in deeper?
 
Puppycow said:
Why? You think that will cure them of supporting Trump or only make them dig in deeper?
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As individuals, I don't particularly care what they do. However, as a group, Trump voters are a critical enemy Center of Gravity, (CoG). Excited voters talk to other voters. In turn, they influence people around them to vote a certain way. If you make Trump voters afraid of telling people they are Trump voters or you make them afraid of the loss of their social or family associations, you limit the ability of the enemy to get more voters. If a shut-in for instance would risk disassociation from his family coming to see him/her and take care of him/her, that shut-in would be less likely to talk to other voters about Trump. Trump voters skew older so this is a vulnerable enemy center of gravity. Older people want the generations they will leave behind around them. If you condition that with explicit or implied support for someone besides Trump, America wins.

If a Trump voter was afraid they would be shunned by a family group or social associations over their support for Trump, they would be less likely to advocate that their circle of association vote for Trump.

Real Trump supporters are a lost cause. However, if you can make vulnerable Trump supporters keep their mouths shut about political leanings due to fear of family or social ostracization, you prevent the enemy from securing more votes.

Also, no one wants to be the hated other. If you make the cost of Trump support so high, people won't do it.
 
Craig4 said:
As individuals, I don't particularly care what they do. However, as a group, Trump voters are a critical enemy Center of Gravity, (CoG). Excited voters talk to other voters. In turn, they influence people around them to vote a certain way. If you make Trump voters afraid of telling people they are Trump voters or you make them afraid of the loss of their social or family associations, you limit the ability of the enemy to get more voters. If a shut-in for instance would risk disassociation from his family coming to see him/her and take care of him/her, that shut-in would be less likely to talk to other voters about Trump. Trump voters skew older so this is a vulnerable enemy center of gravity. Older people want the generations they will leave behind around them. If you condition that with explicit or implied support for someone besides Trump, America wins.

If a Trump voter was afraid they would be shunned by a family group or social associations over their support for Trump, they would be less likely to advocate that their circle of association vote for Trump.

Real Trump supporters are a lost cause. However, if you can make vulnerable Trump supporters keep their mouths shut about political leanings due to fear of family or social ostracization, you prevent the enemy from securing more votes.

Also, no one wants to be the hated other. If you make the cost of Trump support so high, people won't do it.
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This is delusional. He won the presidency and is very likely to win it again, it's not exactly an unpopular thing to be a Trump supporter.
 
Craig4 said:
However, if you can make vulnerable Trump supporters keep their mouths shut about political leanings due to fear of family or social ostracization, you prevent the enemy from securing more votes.
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You already tried that in 2016. It failed.

Also, no one wants to be the hated other. If you make the cost of Trump support so high, people won't do it.
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It would be foolish to believe your hatred will end once Trump leaves office. And while you might be able to raise the cost of voicing support for Trump in certain places, you can't raise the cost of actually voting for Trump. You haven't created the incentive structure you think you have.
 
Ziggurat said:
You already tried that in 2016. It failed.



It would be foolish to believe your hatred will end once Trump leaves office. And while you might be able to raise the cost of voicing support for Trump in certain places, you can't raise the cost of actually voting for Trump. You haven't created the incentive structure you think you have.
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That's probably true. I'll likely never look at an unrepentant Trump supporter as fully human or deserving of basic dignity or civility. However, I have no illusions about my level of influence here. If I can shame or embarrass the few Trump supporters I interact with into silence then I'm happy. I know there's nothing I can do about how a traitor votes once they are in the booth.
 
Craig4 said:
That's probably true. I'll likely never look at an unrepentant Trump supporter as fully human or deserving of basic dignity or civility. However, I have no illusions about my level of influence here. If I can shame or embarrass the few Trump supporters I interact with into silence then I'm happy. I know there's nothing I can do about how a traitor votes once they are in the booth.
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I have no dog in the fight but I find this attitude bizarre.
 
bluesjnr said:
I have no dog in the fight but I find this attitude bizarre.
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It's not actually bizarre. It's primal. It's base tribalism, the kind of thing that successful liberal societies try to teach people to move beyond. But not everyone can move beyond it. And when that attitude becomes sufficiently common, society fractures. It's a very dangerous attitude, but historically speaking it is perhaps closer to the norm than civility and tolerance.
 
Ziggurat said:
It's not actually bizarre. It's primal. It's base tribalism, the kind of thing that successful liberal societies try to teach people to move beyond. But not everyone can move beyond it. And when that attitude becomes sufficiently common, society fractures. It's a very dangerous attitude, but historically speaking it is perhaps closer to the norm than civility and tolerance.
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I accept the notion that we are in a civil cold war. I want the American side to win.
 
Sherkeu said:
I can say, as someone with family in Australia and an ex who came to live here for a time that it is difficult for Australians to get a green card (unless they meet work/education requirements and are lucky to be chosen in the diversity visa lottery of 1000 per year). They all happen to be very white. My cousin spent 2 years at University here in Nebraska. That didn't help him at all. My cousins girlfriend came out on a tourist visa and tried to switch to a student one. Nope! Go back and try again!!

I wondered if it is still that way (a few years later now) and found a story of an Australian woman, legally working in Colorado, who lost her work sponsor of many years and opened her own business. She was given 'intent to deny' renewal of her visa and had to go back after waiting and waiting. She had given all the info they requested at that point and it would cost too much to fight it ($20k or so).
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The same sort of thing is happening in the UK - going after the low-hanging fruit who are easy to find.
 
Followup article in The Leader.

I did find this part interesting.
“As a result of our broken rules, the annual green card flow is mostly low-wage and low-skilled,” the president said. “Only 12 percent of legal immigrants are selected based on skill or based on merit. In countries like Canada, Australia and New Zealand — and others — that number is closer to 60 and even 70 and 75 percent, in some cases.”

Trump declared in May he would rewrite the rules to emphasize merit and skill over other factors. “You will get more points for being a younger worker, meaning you will contribute more to our social safety net. You will get more points for having a valuable skill, an offer of employment, an advanced education or a plan to create jobs.”
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He's not lying about Canada. Even before he got elected, I was looking into what it would take to move there. They don't want you unless you plan to work.
 
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