Ian McKellen's bible vandalism catches on

[joobz]

I oppose the labor practices of American Standard. So, I opt to pee on the floor of every hotel I stay at in protest.

 

[pipelineaudio]

I'd be more inclined to highlight the offensive passages so that subsequent guests can see what their holy but mostly unfamiliar book actually says.

You know, that is a really good idea!

 

[Robin]

Neither does the Bible. Now, back on topic...

Defacing someone else's property is unacceptable.
I also find book burnings to be repugnant, even when you own the books you're burning.
Needless to say, defacing someone else's books is unacceptable, uncivilized, and repugnant.

So suppose you go into a hotel room and find a framed sign on the wall saying "AvalonXQ (or whatever your real name is) is an abomination and ought to be put to death", would you simply leave the sign where it was?

Would you regard it as unacceptable if I found a similar sign in a hotel room and removed the paper from the frame and tore it up?

 

[Robin]

I'd be more inclined to highlight the offensive passages so that subsequent guests can see what their holy but mostly unfamiliar book actually says.

You know, that is a really good idea!

That is what I first thought, but then consider - suppose you use postit notes to bring attention to the passages in Deuteronomy which suggest that God command you go into a city and enquire about which God they worship and then slaughter them if they worship the wrong God, or where Moses commands his men in the name of God to slaughter helpless children and to keep the girl children for their own uses.

The reaction of the person reading might not be "what amoral bloodthirsty nonsense this all is", it might instead be "Gosh, God is commanding that stuff, I should be doing it".

 

[AvalonXQ]

So suppose you go into a hotel room and find a framed sign on the wall saying "AvalonXQ (or whatever your real name is) is an abomination and ought to be put to death", would you simply leave the sign where it was?

Yes, I would. I would also probably go to the management and ask the sign be taken down or else leave the hotel.

Would you regard it as unacceptable if I found a similar sign in a hotel room and removed the paper from the frame and tore it up?

Very much so. You don't deface others' property.

Of course, there are differences between your hypothetical and the case in evidence, one of which is that I, like many people, find it especially repugnant to harm books (there are other conceptual differences, like the fact that the Bible quote is about a BEHAVIOR, not a PERSON, being an abomination, but that's probably too content-rich to get into here).

 

[Robin]

Yes, I would. I would also probably go to the management and ask the sign be taken down or else leave the hotel.

Wouldn't do you much good if the management won't take down the sign and every other hotel had the same sign.

So you would be perfectly happy for the sign to remain in place?

Very much so. You don't deface others' property.

The same as you don't steal or lie - but there are exceptions to these cases, why not exceptions to this?

Are things more important than people?

Of course, there are differences between your hypothetical and the case in evidence, one of which is that I, like many people, find it especially repugnant to harm books

So when a publisher prints a libel or an incitement to violence or terrorism the law demands that the book be pulped. Should this law be repealed?

Are books always more important than people?

(there are other conceptual differences, like the fact that the Bible quote is about a BEHAVIOR, not a PERSON, being an abomination, but that's probably too content-rich to get into here).

Sure, the command applies just as much to heterosexuals as it does to homosexuals.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Wouldn't do you much good if the management won't take down the sign and every other hotel had the same sign.

So you would be perfectly happy for the sign to remain in place?

It wouldn't make me happy. That doesn't mean that anything I want to do to fix it is okay.

The same as you don't steal or lie - but there are exceptions to these cases, why not exceptions to this?
Are things more important than people?

False dichotomy. In fact, only people are important -- that's why it's wrong to hurt things that belong to other people.

 

[Robin]

False dichotomy. In fact, only people are important -- that's why it's wrong to hurt things that belong to other people.

Even when those things cause hurt to people?

So are you saying that there is no possible circumstance in which you will intentionally cause damage to something that belongs to another person?

None whatsoever?

 

[AvalonXQ]

Even when those things cause hurt to people?

So are you saying that there is no possible circumstance in which you will intentionally cause damage to something that belongs to another person?

None whatsoever?

I wouldn't say that, no.
But certainly no such circumstance has arisen thus far in this thread.
Tearing out pages from someone else's book because you dislike the message, is not appropriate behavior for an adult.

 

[Marduk]

False dichotomy. In fact, only people are important -- that's why it's wrong to hurt things that belong to other people.

I don't think Gideon would really mind AvalonXQ, iirc hes been dead a few years now
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gideons_International
and as the Gideon organisation distributes bibles free to whoever wants one, the person doing the tearing (Ian Mckellen) is actually the owner, until he discards it. This is why hes happy to talk about what for him is an act of expression over something that is his, otherwise he'd be inviting a prosecution. He might be an old queen but hes not stupid.

Note he said nothing about smashing up the coffee maker or the trouser press.......

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

Defacing someone else's property is unacceptable.

Oh boo fracking hoo! You do realize that the hotel gets the damn things for free from sects like the Gideon? Tearing out pages from a hotel bibble is as much a "crime" as tearing out the Savage Love columns from a stack of The Onion.

So kudos to Sir Ian! Tear out all the hate-filled, superstitious prattle you want. The relgionist retards will just print more, and more, and more...

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

I would rather he took all the books, put them in a pile, take a staff and hit the ground with it while yelling "YOUUUUU SHALL NOT PAAASS!!!"

 

[six7s]

So kudos to Sir Ian! Tear out all the hate-filled, superstitious prattle you want. The relgionist retards will just print more, and more, and more...

H0MO***UAL ACT!V!SM PR0MOT3S D3F0REST4T10N AND TEH GL0B4L WARM!NG !!11!!

iT'S TRUE!!11!!

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

I would rather he took all the books, put them in a pile, take a staff and hit the ground with it while yelling "YOUUUUU SHALL NOT PAAASS!!!"

Please, the man is going to be type-cast forever thanks to those movies. Leave him SOME dignity.

Besides, nothing is more satisfying than the sound of the consecrated paper TEARING away from the spine followed by the feel of crumbling up those sacred scriptures into a ball to be tossed into the nearest trash can where it belongs.

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

H0MO***UAL ACT!V!SM PR0MOT3S D3F0REST4T10N AND TEH GL0B4L WARM!NG !!11!!

iT'S TRUE!!11!!

I thought that bringing forth Armageddon was a top priority for some breeds of Christer. Surely, turning the earth into a polluted dump will bring JEEZ-us back to magic the faithful up to Heaven.

Hell, its been the GOPs platform during Dubbya's administration!

 

[six7s]

I thought that bringing forth Armageddon was a top priority for some breeds of Christer. Surely, turning the earth into a polluted dump will surely bring JEEZ-us back to magic the faithful up to Heaven.

Oh christ! We're screwed either way, right!

I blame his mother!

 

[Marduk]

Please, the man is going to be type-cast forever thanks to those movies. Leave him SOME dignity.

he kept his dignity by refusing to play Dumbledore, Alas poor Michael Gambon.

 

[Whiplash]

Oh boo fracking hoo! You do realize that the hotel gets the damn things for free from sects like the Gideon? Tearing out pages from a hotel bibble is as much a "crime" as tearing out the Savage Love columns from a stack of The Onion.

So kudos to Sir Ian! Tear out all the hate-filled, superstitious prattle you want. The relgionist retards will just print more, and more, and more...

Please, the man is going to be type-cast forever thanks to those movies. Leave him SOME dignity.

Besides, nothing is more satisfying than the sound of the consecrated paper TEARING away from the spine followed by the feel of crumbling up those sacred scriptures into a ball to be tossed into the nearest trash can where it belongs.

Yikes. While I agree in principal, you seem to get awfully angry or worked up about this sort of thing when it comes up (ie religion).

I understand why some are so anti-religious, but to some extent I think it's fair to say "chill out" and "get some perspective".

 

[tyr_13]

Several years ago I thought about making a hotmail account for the sole purpose of leaving it on cards in the hotel Bibles. I was curious how many people would email.

Why do hotels even put those in the room? Why not something useful? Would they put any book in their rooms that someone donated to them?

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

Yikes. While I agree in principal, you seem to get awfully angry or worked up about this sort of thing when it comes up (ie religion).

I understand why some are so anti-religious, but to some extent I think it's fair to say "chill out" and "get some perspective".

Oh, but I do have a perspective. One that comes from living under the thumb of a family where one side is made up of hard-core Catholics and the other is dominated by Evangelical Lutherans (Wisconsin Synod).

If it weren't for the damn forum rules, you'd see just how "worked up" I could really get.