I Wish I was Middle Income!

[Stimpson J. Cat]

Don't kid yourself by thinking that this is an indication that Romney actually thinks that $200K a year is anything remotely close to a "typical" household income. This is just blatant dishonesty on Romney's part. He has been promising to reduce taxes on "middle-income" Americans, and he knows perfectly well that the majority of the voting public will, quite reasonably, think that this includes them. But in fact what he is actually saying is that he will reduce taxes on the extremely wealthy.

And let's not forget that people whose incomes are substantially more than the already very high $250K that he is calling "middle-income" generally get most of their income in the form of capital gains, rather than salary, and will therefore be paying a much lower percentage on that income than the median income family pays on their wages.

Anyway, I find this almost surreal. I make substantially more money than almost everybody I know, and I still make less than 50% of what he is calling the low end of "middle-income". Silly me. I thought I was doing pretty good.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Anybody else remembering "The Critic" ?

Duke Phillips: I'm running for office to help the little people, average people who only make three hundred grand.
Jay: Duke, most people don't make-
Doris: Shut up! Duke, can I have an advance on my three hundred grand?
Duke: Sure! Here you go.
Doris: So long, suckers!

 

[Ziggurat]

You're the one defending Romney

I didn't defend Romney. I asked questions about what was meant. It seems though that any failure to attack Romney in a discussion is tantamount to a full-bore defense, at least in your mind.

so feel free to enlighten us why it should be 400-500% of the median.

I never said it should. But the number does coincide with Obama's definition. From that same story,

"Obama also has set his definition for "middle class" as families with income of up to $250,000 a year."

So why take exception to only Romney's definition, rather than to both of their definitions? That is... inconsistent.

 

[Upchurch]

I never said it should. But the number does coincide with Obama's definition. From that same story,

"Obama also has set his definition for "middle class" as families with income of up to $250,000 a year."

So why take exception to only Romney's definition, rather than to both of their definitions? That is... inconsistent.

Only if that was specifically what Obama said. I'd like to see what they are referencing. I've done some searching, but I keep getting references to and variations of the OP article.

 

[Ziggurat]

WOW, is this yet another example of republitard math?
So according to YOU 4-5 times the median income is still middle class!?

So this is another example of Magyar logic?

I didn't say what I thought middle income was. I asked what another poster thought it was. Can you figure out the difference?

No, you probably cannot. You certainly didn't the first time.

 

[Chaos]

Don't kid yourself by thinking that this is an indication that Romney actually thinks that $200K a year is anything remotely close to a "typical" household income. This is just blatant dishonesty on Romney's part. He has been promising to reduce taxes on "middle-income" Americans, and he knows perfectly well that the majority of the voting public will, quite reasonably, think that this includes them. But in fact what he is actually saying is that he will reduce taxes on the extremely wealthy.

And let's not forget that people whose incomes are substantially more than the already very high $250K that he is calling "middle-income" generally get most of their income in the form of capital gains, rather than salary, and will therefore be paying a much lower percentage on that income than the median income family pays on their wages.

Anyway, I find this almost surreal. I make substantially more money than almost everybody I know, and I still make less than 50% of what he is calling the low end of "middle-income". Silly me. I thought I was doing pretty good.

Look on the bright side: Since you´re in the low-income group as defined by Romney, you might qualify for food stamps.

 

[Ziggurat]

Only if that was specifically what Obama said. I'd like to see what they are referencing. I've done some searching, but I keep getting references to and variations of the OP article.

Obama has routinely used the $250,000 mark as the cutoff for who should or should not get a continuation of the Bush tax rates. And he routinely calls this a middle class tax cut. You will search in vain for him describing it as a "middle class, plus some of the upper class" tax cut.

He has been using this figure for years. It's been quite a prominent part of his rhetoric. I'm rather surprised to learn that you're only now discovering Obama's long-standing position.

 

[Upchurch]

Struggling a tad. sorry for the crappy link, Congressional Record - Senate, September 30, 2008

Senator OBAMA defines middle class as everyone under $150,000. Senator OBAMA defines as a neutral area those earning between $150,000 and $250,000. Senator OBAMA defines families earning above $250,000 as upper class.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Obama has routinely used the $250,000 mark as the cutoff for who should or should not get a continuation of the Bush tax rates. And he routinely calls this a middle class tax cut. You will search in vain for him describing it as a "middle class, plus some of the upper class" tax cut.

He has been using this figure for years. It's been quite a prominent part of his rhetoric. I'm rather surprised to learn that you're only now discovering Obama's long-standing position.

So, Obama considers 250k to be the bottom limit of upper income, and Romney considers it to be the middle of middle income?

 

[Ziggurat]

So, Obama considers 250k to be the bottom limit of upper income, and Romney considers it to be the middle of middle income?

Do you have reading comprehension problems? Romney put it at the top of the middle income range.

 

[Cain]

So who falls under the category of "very poor" that Romney does not care about? Households making less than 100k?

Jesus, the week's not even over yet. This guy has a serious case of foot-in-mouth disease.

 

[Upchurch]

Based on what I found, I'd say it safe to say that Obama really defines middle income as less than $150,000, but allows up to $250,000 as a grey area.

 

[Ziggurat]

Struggling a tad. sorry for the crappy link, Congressional Record - Senate, September 30, 2008

Thank you for that link, it was most helpful, and it contains exactly the information we needed. Let me quote the relevant passage from your source:

HEMMER: I know we're pushed for time. Can you give me a definition of the middle class based on income, within a range?
OBAMA: You know, what I would say is, if you are making more than $250,000, then you're more than middle class. You're doing better. If you are making less than $250,000, then you are definitely somewhere in the middle class.

 

[Upchurch]

Thank you for that link, it was most helpful, and it contains exactly the information we needed. Let me quote the relevant passage from your source:

Don't stop there. Keep reading.

 

[not_so_new]

cue the republican sycphants of the forum.....

Someone said something about sycophants? It's like rubbing your hand on the bottle, the Genie pops out on cue.



Look... I have made $15k a year or less as an adult in my life, it sucked. For a time I made $50k'ish a year as well, things got a whole h*ll of a lot easier when I moved up. I now make something along the lines of Romney's "middle income" and I can tell you there is a WORLD of difference between the life I lived on $15k - $20k a year (one room apprarment with 30 year old shag carpet and no furniture) vs. the life I live now.

The point is, if someone is going to make the case that middle income is a range between $50k (which seems to be the commonly excepted number) and $150k a year they are smoking something. There is a COMPLETELY different level of comfort and financial security between the two.

Middle Class is an arbitrary number so Romney's blind followers can have all the wiggle room they would like. In the real world where most of us live, people making $50k a year DO NOT live the same life that people making $150k do. To say that these two income levels are in the same ballpark is highly misleading or shows a flat out misunderstanding of the lives most American's lead.

 

[Ziggurat]

Don't stop there. Keep reading.

I did. Obama also defines another cap at $150K that he thinks other people will acknowledge as middle class. But that's still not really his definition. He uses it to set a cap for who he wanted to get additional tax cuts, whereas the $250K mark was his limit for no new tax hikes. But $250K is still where he sets the top of the middle class. The quote is explicit about that.

But then, you struggled with your own source the first time, so I can understand that you still need help with this.

 

[Ziggurat]

I now make something along the lines of Romney's "middle income" and I can tell you there is a WORLD of difference between the life I lived on $15k - $20k a year (one room apprarment with 30 year old shag carpet and no furniture) vs. the life I live now.

So Romney's[ $250K is a world apart from $15k... but Obama's $250K is right next door?

Cue the sycophants indeed.

 

[theprestige]

What a mentally, socially, and politically retarded misunderstanding we have going on in this thread.

Romney isn't saying that middle income is from $200-250,000. He's saying middle income is from [whatever the lower bound is] to somewhere around $200-250,000.

I think I lost brain cells from having to explain this.

 

[Upchurch]

I did.

Obviously not far enough. That's okay. Everyone else can read it for themselves, if they choose. You aren't actually fooling anyone.

 

[deaman]

LOL!

Let's be fair to Romney. He was including the interest income most middle class people make from their trusts in the Cayman Islands.

LOL!!!!