I will be asked where I get my morals.

[Jackalgirl]

No. The OP was asked why he never married the mother of his child and he said because they'd only be headed for divorce. He was asked why he would even have sex with someone he wouldn't want to marry and he said cause it was fun.

Someone very rightly pointed out that it takes two to have sex and conceive a child and no one asked the mother what she was doing having sex with someone she didn't want to be with.

Jackalgirl responded that it's always the man's fault and I said not so.

I was being heavily sarcastic in my reply -- I'm sorry it didn't come through strongly enough. I know well enough that responsibility lies on both parties' shoulders; I was simply reacting to the implication, as Miss Anthrope pointed out, that Ceritas was the one who had to think of future consequences (no mention made of the woman), with a sarcastic rejoinder about how so obvious it is that women are too mentally and emotionally deficient to be required to think of such paltry things as "consequences". <-- that was sarcasm. ; )

 

[Jackalgirl]

Found the discussion

Link to post

The actual article seems to want registering for the New York Times online though.

edit here is a link to an official NY state report of the event where the judge said "Every woman needs a good pounding every now and then"

Ah the joys of an elected judiciary

Thank you for the links! Very interesting..and horrible. It is good to see, however, that the judge was removed as a result of that (and all of the other stuff he pulled).

 

[pgwenthold]

Someone very rightly pointed out that it takes two to have sex and conceive a child and no one asked the mother what she was doing having sex with someone she didn't want to be with..

Who said she didn't want to be with him?

Perhaps she wanted to marry him, but since that needs to be a mutual decision, that's why they aren't?

 

[Math Maniac]

I live in Tulsa, OK and can attest to the downright "religiousness" of many Oklahomans. While I believe in trying to work within that culture here (not berating "religiousness" when it's not called for), I cannot believe that you would have to "suffer" that kind of treatment in a governmental court of law.

While people may be "religious," I do find that those same people make many of the same decisions to be "sinners" as well as make the same mistakes as atheists or people in general.

Please don't get the impression that OK is just full of backwater hillbillies ready to "lay the fire of faith upon the masses." There are many, many good-natured religious and non-religious folk in OK. Sometimes, though, it seems as though one only encounters the former!

It's just too bad that your Judge is such an a**.

 

[Slimething]

edit here is a link to an official NY state report of the event where the judge said "Every woman needs a good pounding every now and then"

Ah the joys of an elected judiciary

Thanks for the link. Even with the link, it seems so bizzare to have people like this around.

 

[kittynh]

wow! You know I am not an atheist, but I posted once about why I find my atheist friends more moral than my religious friends.

I joke that "Atheists are good for nothing".

But really, if you are an avowed atheist, you are being good because it is the right thing. You aren't being good for any reward or promises in the future.

I got the "good for nothing " from my grandmother. I wondered why I wasn't given money and such for good grades. She told me I should get good grades because it was good for ME, and for my future, but not for money or even to please her.

When my daughters were younger I sent them to a school that doesn't give grades. The point was to learn, not to earn.

So you are "good for nothing".

 

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I was being heavily sarcastic in my reply -- I'm sorry it didn't come through strongly enough. I know well enough that responsibility lies on both parties' shoulders; I was simply reacting to the implication, as Miss Anthrope pointed out, that Ceritas was the one who had to think of future consequences (no mention made of the woman), with a sarcastic rejoinder about how so obvious it is that women are too mentally and emotionally deficient to be required to think of such paltry things as "consequences". <-- that was sarcasm. ; )

Oh, ****, I scrolled to the bottom to reply and decided to quote you so I scroll up and quote the first Jackalgirl avatar I saw. Honest mistake, I could have sworn I quoted the right one. Even remember reading your quote in my reply. That's so weird.

Uh, I know you were being sarcastic . I'm saying it's off the point- no one's thinking is that women are too dumb to be held responsible. In fact, they're very often the only ones held responsible for extramarital sex and unwanted pregnancies, as if it doesn't take two.

Actually, I'm almost happy when a man is solely blamed, for once.

 

[osmosis]

Actually, I'm almost happy when a man is solely blamed, for once.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

(but three lefts do)

 

[Miss Anthrope]

ah, never mind.

 

[JC Fla]

I joke that "Atheists are good for nothing".

But really, if you are an avowed atheist, you are being good because it is the right thing. You aren't being good for any reward or promises in the future.

Very interesting Kittynh. I have heard this point made before, but never so succinctly. Don't mind if I borrow it, do you?

 

[Tanstaafl]

So, Ceritus....


Any more news???

 

[EGarrett]

Beat the Atheist/Moral question in a few easy steps.

Later in the thread, someone gives a good all-purpose answer when they say you can just answer "Empathy. I wouldn't want to be raped or stolen from or hurt, so I don't steal, rape, or hurt others."

It tends to just stop the questioning cold...and you can just stare at them while they try to come up with something else.

 

[articulett]

http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

Dogs are faithful, loyal, and don't start wars, and they have no gods. Morals evolve--you get your morals via eons of ancestors evolving to be social animals. Everyone does...even if they think they get them from Zeus, Allah, or the FSM.

 

[articulett]

Yes, tell him that you definitely don't get your morals from the bible--you'd never punish your daughter and all her decendents for eternity for apple eating...

And if you heard an invisible entity telling you to kill your kid (ala Abraham)to prove your faith, you'd go to a psychiatrist.

 

[CurtC]

And if you heard an invisible entity telling you to kill your kid (ala Abraham)to prove your faith, you'd go to a psychiatrist.

Or worse, ala Jephthah. At least Abraham stopped short - Jephthah followed through (Judges 11).

 

[Sleepy]

People above have already mentioned empathy, but anyway...

1. Empathy. I don't like seeing people be wronged or suffering needlessly. My sense of (in)justice goes crazy.

2. Self esteem. I want to have the qualities I most value in others. Loyalty, honesty, integrity, compassion, etc. Cheating or hurting someone else makes me feel terrible. I'm usually smart enough to know what the right action is, and doing it lets me keep smiling.

3. Enlightened self-interest. Being good to people builds social capital and strong relationships. A stable family, community, society and world is essential to my interests, so even altruistic deeds pay dividends. Helping the unfortunate increases their capacity to help others in turn, leading to a kind of good-will domino effect.

--

Compressed into easily digestible sound bites:

Your honor, I've learned by experience, observation and contemplation that:
* what goes around comes around
* my good reputation is a priceless asset
* doing the right thing is emotionally/financially/you name it more rewarding than doing the wrong thing

I dunno if pointing out that atheists in general are far less criminalistic and overall better people than non-atheists would go down too well. Pity.

I hope your judge is secretly an atheist too. I think judges have to play the political game to become/stay judges so publicly professing atheism is out, but anyone with a tertiary education is somewhat more likely to be an atheist anyway.

 

[osmosis]

Richard Carrier's Sense & Goodness Without God, is a fine book on the subject of atheist morality. I highly recommend it.

 

[articulett]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

(but three lefts do)

---Two Wrights made an airplane.

 

[Dunstan]

For those of you wondering whether a judge can really consider this, you might be interested in reading this blog post

The post references an upcoming law review article; the article deals with more than just the atheism issue, but that section is easily found at the beginning of the article, with case citations and summaries. The article is here

 

[Jackalgirl]

For those of you wondering whether a judge can really consider this, you might be interested in reading this blog post

Which part of that page talks about a judge rendering judgement regarding custody based on the religion (or lack thereof) of one or both of the parents? I'm sorry, I honestly don't mean to sound sharp or anything, I'm just not seeing the post. Most of the entries on that page seem to be about Hurricane Katrina-related issues (plus a dabbling of other things, like Rudy Guiliani, circumcision, etc). Could you point me to a paragraph? Thanks!