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I will abandon CD hypothesis if...

Crazy Chainsaw said:
Thanks pomeroo, I finally got though, I talked with my patent attorney today to and he said I could send NIST some of my early work concept drawings of failed devices I am abandoning, because it really would not affect the patentable device.

I want to post one of my earliest experiments into cutting a steel column here, with a thermite triggered oxygen cutter. Basically a converted oxygen lance ignited by thermite. Remember Dr. Jones failed to demonstrate one device at burning man, I have built several.

[qimg]http://chainsawsanders.com/Oxygenlance.jpg[/qimg]

IT is so easy to build that even a physicist can do it, except at burning man.
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CC:
Do you really think that NIST even thinks that the "truthers" BS is worth spending their time on? What I mean is, I don't think they gave "thermite" a second glance because thinking something like that could be used is nuts in the first place. I can't recall any serious scientist even considering the possibility.

NIST= Deal with reality

Truthers= Try to baffle with the BS

Hell I haven't seen NIST's response to claims of "kebler elf's".:D
 
mrbaracuda said:
No wonder it failed - it's a sketch! :D
Did you discuss this sort of stuff regarding WTC7 with this Newman fella?
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Oh yes I did, I hope I gave them a heads up on it, they offered to test a device if Dr. Jones would come up with one but he never did.
It serves his interests better to wait then point out that NIST never tested the devices.

Oh and the device I pictured actually worked, it punched a hole though to the other side of a column and the device mostly survived. It is just not that efficient or effective.
 
DGM said:
CC:
Do you really think that NIST even thinks that the "truthers" BS is worth spending their time on? What I mean is, I don't think they gave "thermite" a second glance because thinking something like that could be used is nuts in the first place. I can't recall any serious scientist even considering the possibility.

NIST= Deal with reality

Truthers= Try to baffle with the BS

Hell I haven't seen NIST's response to claims of "kebler elf's".:D
Click to expand...

The difference is Remote oxygen cutters exist, kebler elves do not exist.

And yes Dr. Jones has contacted them, however he has never come up with a working device.
 
mrbaracuda said:
Would it be possible and suitable to be used remotely? ;) :D
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That is what it is designed to do, operate by itself without human intervention.

Once the thermite heats the end enough the device ignites and the expansion cylinder, moves the device slowly inward until the oxygen lance cuts all the way though the column.

It is a simple device I never could figure out why Dr. Jones could not build one, I mean come on just use gravity to help clear out the oxide slag.
Although gravity seems to be something that Cters do not seem to understand gravity.
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
IT is so easy to build that even a physicist can do it,
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Oi! I resemble that remark!

It's clearly impossible for devices like this to have been used to sever the perimeter columns, as any cutting from the inside would have produced a highly visible forework display around the outside, and cutting from the outside would have required a couple of hundred large devices to be strapped to the outside of the building. So we're left with the situation that their use to cut the core columns is the only possibility that can't be immediately eliminated on the basis of the most superficial examination of the evidence.

The questions relevant to 9-11 conspiracy theories are therefore:
(1) How big a device would be needed to cut a WTC core column, and therefore how likely would it be that dozens of these devices could have been installed without being noticed?
(2) What outward physical signs would be observed if it were used to initiate the collapse of a building? In particular, would it produce intense illumination that couldn't be missed from outside?

Dave
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
The difference is Remote oxygen cutters exist, kebler elves do not exist.

And yes Dr. Jones has contacted them, however he has never come up with a working device.
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Do you really think they took him seriously though? I don't.

The evidence is overwhelmingly against even the slightest possibility.

(The "Kebler elves" was a comparison to the outrageous nature of the claims)
 
cisco said:
Sizzler, you've been "on the verge" of abandoning your beliefs since you've been here. You're just a troll who is never going to change his tightly held beliefs because they are a fantasy that is very important to you. Way more than enough evidence has been given to you to abandon them long ago if you ever had any intention of doing so. You don't, so you're wasting everybody's time. Go away.
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:thanks


I 100% agree. ANd it is uch a freaking obvious ploy to look "open minded" when sizzler has shown time and time again he is a hard core truther,and shows no sign of changing.
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
The difference is Remote oxygen cutters exist, kebler elves do not exist.

And yes Dr. Jones has contacted them, however he has never come up with a working device.
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I don't think that's correct. Remote oxygen cutters exist as do cookies. But the keebler elves who make them and the magical elves who get into the buildings and cut into it without being noticed don't exist.
 
Dave Rogers said:
Oi! I resemble that remark!

It's clearly impossible for devices like this to have been used to sever the perimeter columns, as any cutting from the inside would have produced a highly visible forework display around the outside, and cutting from the outside would have required a couple of hundred large devices to be strapped to the outside of the building. So we're left with the situation that their use to cut the core columns is the only possibility that can't be immediately eliminated on the basis of the most superficial examination of the evidence.

The questions relevant to 9-11 conspiracy theories are therefore:
(1) How big a device would be needed to cut a WTC core column, and therefore how likely would it be that dozens of these devices could have been installed without being noticed?
(2) What outward physical signs would be observed if it were used to initiate the collapse of a building? In particular, would it produce intense illumination that couldn't be missed from outside?

Dave
Click to expand...

(1) How big a device would be needed to cut a WTC core column, and therefore how likely would it be that dozens of these devices could have been installed without being noticed?
Click to expand...

It would take a multiple nozzle high energy device of atleast a few hundred pounds, most of that being the heavy clamps, housing and oxygen. Very little thermite.

It would be practically impossible I mean your not going to sneek these things in in mail carts. It would be even more noticable after usage in the clean up the clamps or mountings and bolt holes would really stick out like sore thumbs, no way to miss those.

(2) What outward physical signs would be observed if it were used to initiate the collapse of a building? In particular, would it produce intense illumination that couldn't be missed from outside?
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Blinding white light, However carbon is good at obscuring the light and converting it into the heat.
The main thing is probibly the cut pattern, huge lumps of steel forced downward into mushroom shapes, clamp marks, bolt marks and tearing.
IT would have taken blind man to miss the evidence of thermite oxygen cutters in the Buildings or in the rubble after the collapses.
 
e^n said:
Unfortunately due to the lack of identifiable steel, nobody can be held to this standard. The only steel samples we have are the one from FEMA, and the pictures of the steel post-collapse.

I could possibly make the claim though, that fires are good physical evidence of heat expansion, because the phenomena is intrinsically linked to the heat of the structural member.

Perhaps you could elaborate, have you read NCSTAR 1-9 yet? It's not quite 'as good' as NCSTAR 1-6, but they had much less to work off so you can't exactly blame them for that.
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The only sample of steel, according to MacQueen, is not even mentioned in NIST.

I realize things expand when they are heated, but there are certainly other signs that could help NIST understand if it was a leading contributer to the collapses of the floors.

Heck, they could have made a floor model and tested their hypothesis (no I don't mean a WTC7 replica, just a scaled floor model).

My main point here is that CD hypothesis should be held to the same measures as any other hypothesis. If the steel was destroyed, fine, but lets keep the playing field even here.
 
Why doesnt this thread have any evidence? all i see is you guys doing is bashing the OP. :(
 
Sizzler said:
My main point here is that CD hypothesis should be held to the same measures as any other hypothesis. If the steel was destroyed, fine, but lets keep the playing field even here.
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Given that there is clear physical evidence that makes it impossible that the collapse could have been a CD using explosives and no plausible mechanism has ever been suggested for the collapse to have been caused by thermite, one would expect that, on an even playing field, these hypotheses would have been rejected long ago.

Dave
 
OK, what would happen if someone used thermite and cut column 79 and only 79? While it's impossible to rig up a whole building without noticing, how about they just rigged that one column since its failure seems to be the main cause of the collapse?
 
Dave Rogers said:
Given that there is clear physical evidence that makes it impossible that the collapse could have been a CD using explosives and no plausible mechanism has ever been suggested for the collapse to have been caused by thermite, one would expect that, on an even playing field, these hypotheses would have been rejected long ago.

Dave
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This is my point only.

People say, "Thermite could not have been involved because there is no evidence on the steel"

Truthers say, "What steel? There isn't any to test."

Then in the same breathe....

Truthers say, "There is no physical steel evidence that heat expansion caused floor collapses."

People say, "What steel? There isn't any to test."

Both hypotheses should be evaluated by the same method, that being the scientific.

Thus for both hypotheses, a lack of steel evidence should not disqualify either one, THERE IS NO STEEL EVIDENCE LEFT TO EVALUATE, for any hypothesis.
 
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