By "all acounts?" The Sunnis have claimed fraud from the get go. Odds are you are correct that they were fair. But "By all accounts" is not accurate.
By "all acounts?" The Sunnis have claimed fraud from the get go. Odds are you are correct that they were fair. But "By all accounts" is not accurate.
Ian Osborne
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Perhaps you could answer it yourself? IIRC, you were against the war too. You might also like to define 'support'.
Speaking for myself, I hope all our troops come back safe and sound (including anyone who volunteered). Opposing the war doesn't mean you wish any ill to befall the troops on the ground, which is what the neo-cons would like us to believe.
And finally, a question for the war hawks - do you cheer when an Iraqi, fighting for his country against an illegal occupation, is killed?
There is no illegal occupation of Iraq.
Ian Osborne
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Do you really believe that?
bob_kark
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You mean against a democratically elected government? The Iraqi government wants our troops to be there, so wouldn't he really be fighting against his country?
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But the people don't. Democracy in action? Or just another propped up dictatorship in the making? (I don't have an answer to that myself...just wondering.)
Yes.
The first part "illegal". Which court that is recognised by either or both the USA or the UK/EU has determined that the occupation was originally illegal?
The second part - there have been the democratic and fair elections for the first time in 40 years, 70% of the people participated in the vote and the coalition forces are now in that country under the at least tolerance of the new government.
The only way you can claim the occupation is illegal now is to claim that somehow the current Iraqi government is not a legitimate government.
Ian Osborne
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The invasion and occupation was illegal, and if you expected the election to produce anything other than a government favourable to the United States, there really is no hope for you at all.
The Vichy Government wanted the German troops to stay in France. Does that make the resistance terrorists?
Over 70% of the people voted for the government, the parties with the majority of votes are the ones that formed the government, the government is a representative government of Iraq. It is as legitimate as any "western" government.
I believe 50% or so of USA voters at the last election did not vote for Bush, and 69% of the UK voting population did not vote for our current government. Yet they are both legitimate governments entitled to make decisions on behalf of their populations.
Fair enough. I still wonder how things will work out in the long run...betcha (and I get no joy from this) we end up with a brutal dictatorship there, the only difference being that we will be blamed for it.
Please provide which court recognised by the USA or the UK/EU determined that the invasion was illegal. Many people have passed legal opinions about this some say it was illegal some say it wasn't however whether it is legal or not has not as far as I am aware been determined by any court.
This idea that it was "illegal" is a variation of the big lie - most people now say it as if the matter has been determined - it hasn't.
The population of Iraq did not vote for a government favourable toward the coalition forces, in fact the parties that the coalition favoured did worse then the other parties see:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4261035.stm.
According to that report the turnout was actually estimate at 58% not the 70% I've been stating.
bob_kark
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I don't really know how much you can argue with voter turnout vastly exceeding our own. How is that not democratic? How could that be considered "another propped up dictatorship in the making?"
Very likely. Think either of them will be a democracy? I don't. I hope I am wrong, though.
You guys make a good points...but all it really indicates to me is that the people want a democratic government, but they also don't want us there anymore.
Ian Osborne
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You seem to have gone from a 70% turnout to a 70% vote for the Government. Which is it? And does this include the areas of Iraq that weren't included in the vote?
No one was disbarred from standing in those elections.
A democratically elected government shouldn't have to need the support of foreign troops to survive. If the present government of Iraq has the support of the majority of the Iraqi people, it should be able to exist on its own. Saddam is gone, there was an election, now get out of there.
I think the Kurds would retain democracy, I fear the rest of the country will become another Iran.
I agree but I also think the government knows that it needs the coalition forces there at the moment. In fact I don't think anyone wants the coalition forces in Iraq!
bob_kark
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So you have proof that every Iraqi official elected is favorable to the US?
I'm sorry, I didn't realize that the French were free to elect their government officials during the German occupation. I guess that's an extremely fair and accurate comparison. While we're at it, Bush must be Hitler and Blair must be Mussolini. Pardon me, I need to goose-step to the latrine.