I DON'T SUPPORT our troops.

[Luke T.]

Here's one. And another. And another.

And there's nothing stopping anyone from taking pictures of the graves of the Iraq war dead in Arlington. About 8 percent of them are there.

 

[Orwell]

You guys have a pretty short memory.

 

[Ed]

NO.

A person volunteers to engage in a war you oppose. Do you support him?

Support as defined how?

1. To bear the weight of, especially from below.
2. To hold in position so as to keep from falling, sinking, or slipping.
3. To be capable of bearing; withstand: “His flaw'd heart... too weak the conflict to support” (Shakespeare).
4. To keep from weakening or failing; strengthen: The letter supported him in his grief.
5. To provide for or maintain, by supplying with money or necessities.
6. To furnish corroborating evidence for: New facts supported her story.
7. 1. <LI type=a>To aid the cause, policy, or interests of: supported her in her election campaign.
   2. To argue in favor of; advocate: supported lower taxes.
8. To endure; tolerate: “At supper there was such a conflux of company that I could scarcely support the tumult” (Samuel Johnson).
9. To act in a secondary or subordinate role to (a leading performer).

I am having a very hard time pinning down what "support" means in this context.

 

[Orwell]

Hey what do you know, I don't support your troops either!

Would that make me an unpatriotic american, if I was a US citizen, that is?

 

[Luke T.]

Support as defined how?

1. To bear the weight of, especially from below.
2. To hold in position so as to keep from falling, sinking, or slipping.
3. To be capable of bearing; withstand: “His flaw'd heart... too weak the conflict to support” (Shakespeare).
4. To keep from weakening or failing; strengthen: The letter supported him in his grief.
5. To provide for or maintain, by supplying with money or necessities.
6. To furnish corroborating evidence for: New facts supported her story.
7. 1. <LI type=a>To aid the cause, policy, or interests of: supported her in her election campaign.
   2. To argue in favor of; advocate: supported lower taxes.
8. To endure; tolerate: “At supper there was such a conflux of company that I could scarcely support the tumult” (Samuel Johnson).
9. To act in a secondary or subordinate role to (a leading performer).

I am having a very hard time pinning down what "support" means in this context.

Now you are getting the picture. Anti-war people who claim to "support the troops" are hard to pin down on what they mean.

 

[Mark]

Here's one. And another. And another. You know, you were just wondering why people accuse you of lying. It's because you lie. A lot. About everything.

Who is lying? As a Bush apologist, do you even know what truth is? To you people truth is whatever makes Bush look good. You should have worked for Pravda.

Update (13 Jan 05): Soldiers' families and the Louisiana National Guard have defied the Pentagon and allowed the media to film and photograph the arrival of six area Guardsmen killed in Iraq. More here.

Update (22 Apr 04): Due to a Freedom of Information Act request from The Memory Hole, the Air Force has released 288 photographs showing soldiers' remains arriving home (plus 73 of the Columbia astronauts). These are the images that the Pentagon prevented the public from seeing. See them here

To this problem, the Bush administration has found a simple solution: It has ended the public dissemination of such images by banning news coverage and photography of dead soldiers' homecomings on all military bases.

In March, on the eve of the Iraq war, a directive arrived from the Pentagon at U.S. military bases. "There will be no arrival ceremonies for, or media coverage of, deceased military personnel returning to or departing from Ramstein [Germany] airbase or Dover [Del.] base, to include interim stops," the Defense Department said, referring to the major ports for the returning remains.

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/

In March, before the Iraq war began, the Pentagon clamped down on similar coverage from military installations around the world, such as Ramstein Air Base in Germany or in Afghanistan. "The prohibition includes ... the movement of remains at any point," the Pentagon guidelines say.

The result is that images of caskets being returned to U.S. soil are not shown to the American public. This policy contrasts with Italy's national display of grief last month when 19 of that country's troops died in an Iraq suicide bombing and received a state funeral through the streets of Rome.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-12-31-casket-usat_x.htm

There are liars on this board, but it ain't me.

 

[Luke T.]

You guys have a pretty short memory.

Explain.

 

[Orwell]

Support as defined how?

1. To bear the weight of, especially from below.
2. To hold in position so as to keep from falling, sinking, or slipping.
3. To be capable of bearing; withstand: “His flaw'd heart... too weak the conflict to support” (Shakespeare).
4. To keep from weakening or failing; strengthen: The letter supported him in his grief.
5. To provide for or maintain, by supplying with money or necessities.
6. To furnish corroborating evidence for: New facts supported her story.
7. 1. <LI type=a>To aid the cause, policy, or interests of: supported her in her election campaign.
   2. To argue in favor of; advocate: supported lower taxes.
8. To endure; tolerate: “At supper there was such a conflux of company that I could scarcely support the tumult” (Samuel Johnson).
9. To act in a secondary or subordinate role to (a leading performer).

I am having a very hard time pinning down what "support" means in this context.

It means politically castrating yourself, since it is very hard to support the troops while opposing the war.

Don't worry, it's just another jingo tactic to make the opponents of this war look "unpatriotic".

"My country right or wrong", don't you know?

 

[specious_reasons]

I don't really understand the fuss. Joel Stein is a professional ass. He's a comic, and unlike Coulter, intends to be known as a comic.

Should you want to hear him weigh in on other serious topical issues, try VH1.

Being desperate for attention, he has appeared on any TV show that asks him: VH1's "I Love the Decade You Tell Me I Love," HBO's "Phoning It In," Comedy Central's "Reel Comedy" and E! Entertainment's "101 Hottest Hot Hotties' Hotness."

 

[Luke T.]

Who is lying? As a Bush apologist, do you even know what truth is? To you people truth is whatever makes Bush look good. You should have worked for Pravda.

Don't need a media circus during a solemn event. I would support such a move for a war even you would support, Mark. Or for a war I would oppose. Your noise about it just exemplifies the reason. You want to "support" the dead by propagandizing them in an anti-war cause. Use the deaths of men who would probably very much disagree with you if they could speak.

And as I said, Arlington cemetery has a corner that contains around 8 percent of the graves of the Iraq war dead. That's more than what could be captured on film at a military base KIA homecoming.

 

[Orwell]

Explain.

From a few months ago:

US concern over war dead photos

Pentagon lawyers are examining the release of photographs of the coffins of dead American soldiers repatriated from Iraq.
The images, taken by Department of Defense officials, appeared on the web after the US Air Force released them under the Freedom of Information Act.

Pentagon rules dating back to 1991 ban the media from covering the return of the remains of soldiers killed abroad.

Critics say the rule is designed to cover up the human cost of war.

Defence officials insist it is in the interests of bereaved families.

I think this stupid policy was repealed, but not without the pentagon objecting.

 

[Darat]

Explain.

I think it was a reference to this story: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2001910594_pentagon23m.html

 

[Manny]

Explain.

He thinks the left's lie that the Pentagon's directive that families decide on their own what public exposure their loved ones' remains receive equates to a prohibition on anyone seeing them has been received as truth. So does Mark. This is actually a perfectly good example of not supporting the troops. The directive originated because many military families objected to their loved ones being used for political purposes. It was precisely to support them that the Pentagon changed its policy.

 

[Mark]

Don't need a media circus during a solemn event. I would support such a move for a war even you would support, Mark. Or for a war I would oppose.

And as I said, Arlington cemetery has a corner that contains around 8 percent of the graves of the Iraq war dead. That's more than what could be captured on film at a military base KIA homecoming.

Fine. Just don't try to pull a Manny and claim it isn't happening, and that anyone who says it is is a liar.

 

[Mark]

He thinks the left's lie that the Pentagon's directive that families decide on their own what public exposure their loved ones' remains receive equates to a prohibition on anyone seeing them has been received as truth. So does Mark. This is actually a perfectly good example of not supporting the troops. The directive originated because many military families objected to their loved ones being used for political purposes. It was precisely to support them that the Pentagon changed its policy.

You said it wasn't happening at all and that I was a liar. So now it is happening, you just agree with the reasons.

And you call me a liar.

 

[Luke T.]

It's funny no one who opposes the war can answer a simple question. Every time I've asked it, the answer has been dodged.

 

[Orwell]

He thinks the left's lie that the Pentagon's directive that families decide on their own what public exposure their loved ones' remains receive equates to a prohibition on anyone seeing them has been received as truth. So does Mark. This is actually a perfectly good example of not supporting the troops. The directive originated because many military families objected to their loved ones being used for political purposes. It was precisely to support them that the Pentagon changed its policy.

How convenient!

Yeah, yeah, whatever... They looked bad because of this, they spinned it, and you bought it.

 

[Orwell]

It's funny no one who opposes the war can answer a simple question. Every time I've asked it, the answer has been dodged.

I oppose the war, I don't support your troops. I want them to leave Iraq. How's that for clarity?

Would I be unpatriotic, if I was an US citizen?

 

[Manny]

You said it wasn't happening at all and that I was a liar. So now it is happening, you just agree with the reasons.

And you call me a liar.

You are a liar. Here's what you said: "They then prevent anyone from seeing the flag draped coffins when those troops come back dead." They do not prevent anyone from seeing the flag draped coffins. If the family agrees, the flag draped coffin can have its own show on CBS.

 

[Ed]

Now you are getting the picture. Anti-war people who claim to "support the troops" are hard to pin down on what they mean.

We have a long history of the military being absolutely subjugated to the civilian government (as do all Western Democracies, even the pinko ones). Interfering with that relationship can have results that I fear to contemplate. A person volenteering, with full knowledge, to serve in a campaign I disagee with is part of our process and his dicision is made between himself and his God. My argument is with the government because the the military will do what they are told. I guess that the question of "support" is really a non-issue.

I might point out that as much as the anti-war people are full of crap on this issue, so are the idiots that drape themselves with the flag and, loudly, declare undying "support" for the troops.

Here are some objective areas where one might be said to "support" the troops:

-increased pay and benefits
-education programs
-health and hospitalization stuff after separation
-adequite supplies when deployed

I am in favor of all of these things.