I challenge you: your best alternate to materialism

doronshadmi said:
As for constant speed > 0, it is not absolutely invariant, since movement (and therefore variance) is involved with it.
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That is just a plain dumb statement. Really.

It is not about what the speed accomplishes. Really, this is a kindergarten mistake.
 
Belz... said:
Irrelevant. Bricks don't exist independently of the house they are part of, and yet you can still speak of them as things.
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This is not a good example since the house is analogous to a photon that has variant AND invariant properties that can't be separated from each other, otherwise there is no house (photon) in the first place.

Also http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10433484&postcount=1339.

Belz... said:
You lose.
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Aren't you tired from this ridiculous signature?
 
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doronshadmi said:
This is not a good example since the house is analogous to a photon that has variant AND invariant properties that can't be separated from each other, otherwise there is no house (photon) in the first place.
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OK, ability to understand analogies is very low. Noted.

Anyway, you asked, I answered, the photon's speed is a valid answer despite whatever other characteristics the photon has. Ergo, you are wrong.

You lose.

doronshadmi said:
Aren't you tired from this ridiculous signature?
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As soon as you admit your defeat, I shall stop posting it.
 
Belz... said:
No, no, no. Photons are part of the invariant simplest state, are they not ? If they are variant, then so are you.
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Yes, but they are not the simplest state of existence, which is absolutely invariant.


Belz... said:
Thank you.
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Thank you too, but this time please reply to all of it.

doronshadmi said:
Exactly as photons, the fact that we are also variant phenomena prevent omniscient knowledge of variant phenomena, but it does not prevent a complete knowledge of the absolutely invariant substance that enables us to be developed into 100% harmonious factors among the diversity of all space\time phenomena, and again, object\subject multiplicity is an aspect of space\time phenomena that no one of its objects or subjects is absolutely invariant.
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Belz... said:
Stop moving the goalposts. Your request was answered.
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It was not answered since constant speed > 0 can't be spattered from position's change, so you did not provide any objective evident that is absolutely invariant.
 
doronshadmi said:
It was not answered since constant speed > 0 can't be spattered from position's change, so you did not provide any objective evident that is absolutely invariant.
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I'm really sorry that this simple concept eludes you, Doron, but that seriously isn't my problem. I've explained why your objection is invalid, and thus you have your answer and your claim is incorrect.

You lose.
 
Belz... said:
I'm really sorry that this simple concept eludes you, Doron, but that seriously isn't my problem. I've explained why your objection is invalid, and thus you have your answer and your claim is incorrect.
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Your explanation does not hold water since constant speed > 0 can't be separated from position's change.
 
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Belz... said:
Of course it can. It doesn't change, while the other does.
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No, constant speed > 0 and position's change are inseparable of each other, therefore you did not provide, yet, an objective evident that is absolutely invariant.

Any way I wish to thank you since during our replies I have learned that group velocity can be reduced and photon's speed remains constant, according to the current scientific knowledge, which is, b.t.w, another example of why light is not absolutely invariant objective phenomenon.

I am going to look at it more carefully by not ignoring the current knowledge that photons have complement properties of waves or particles.
 
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Belz... said:
Of course it can. It doesn't change, while the other does.
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This is exactly the reason of why it can't be considered as absolutely invariant, since speed > 0 and position's changes depend on each other, whether speed > 0 is constant, or not.

You simply do not understand, yet, what is actual absolute invariance (existence that is not changed under all possible transformations).

Again, the fact that we are also variant phenomena prevent omniscient knowledge of variant phenomena, but it does not prevent a complete knowledge of the absolutely invariant substance that enables us to be developed into 100% harmonious factors among the diversity of all space\time phenomena, and again, object\subject multiplicity is an aspect of space\time phenomena that no one of its objects or subjects is absolutely invariant (it is not existence that is not changed under all possible transformations, as the simplest state of existence is).
 
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I wonder whether he is (deliberately) obtuse or whether he *really* does not know the word phenomenon.

But I have found another universal invariant: Doron Shadmi's inability to comprehend text and arguments.

And when we had the whole photon thing, we can always start with the laws of thermodynamics....
 
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