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I Am Soul

Navigator said:
Did I mis-understand you about your belief that the brain is the creator of the sentient concept of the self?
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That is not a belief, that is a fact.

Paul

:) :) :)

Oh yes my friend, the so-called god is being worked in, and we can't see this at all, yep, not us, we are blind to it.
 
Must we now buy you a dictionary.

Paul

:) :) :)
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God, the center and focus of religious faith, a holy being or ultimate reality to whom worship and prayer are addressed. Especially in monotheistic...
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/search.aspx?q=god

Navigator, you are going to navigate some so-called god of some type into this in the end.
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I don't believe in any such so-called god Paul, and would find the introduction of such a thing, as disruptive to the intent of this thread - the intent and the way it is unfolding.

This is not to say that I discount the possible existence of similar, higher, vaster realities which are sentient.
But I would not worship such things. Or think them somehow in need of worship.
I would investigate the possibility of communing with this.
After all, that is what sentience does.
 
Did I mis-understand you about your belief that the brain is the creator of the sentient concept of the self?
Click to expand...

That is not a belief, that is a fact.

Paul

:) :) :)

Oh yes my friend, the so-called god is being worked in, and we can't see this at all, yep, not us, we are blind to it.
Click to expand...

Did the brain tell you that this is a fact, and why do you trust the brain to tell you the truth?
Afterall, it created you. Do you trust that it is true?
Would it create you and then lie to you?

Might it want you to see it as the center and focus of your sense of self, a thing of or ultimate reality to which questions regarding who you are, are addressed.
 
Navigator said:
Did the brain tell you that this is a fact, and why do you trust the brain to tell you the truth?
Afterall, it created you. Do you trust that it is true?
Would it create you and then lie to you?

Might it want you to see it as the center and focus of your sense of self, a thing of or ultimate reality to which questions regarding who you are, are addressed.
Click to expand...
Oh, the brain and mind are one in the same, but you show you don't understand that, too bad.

Paul

:) :) :)

As they now say, your bad.
 
Oh, the brain and mind are one in the same, but you show you don't understand that, too bad.
As they now say, your bad.
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The mind? Is that one of those linguistic abstractions?
Come on Paul brain – dontcha agree with this…
…we are discussin’ the stuff.
Just cause you get asked something difficult, you want to act like some devoutee whos beliefs (sorry – facts) are challenged and tell me brain it aint understand’n and that’s my too bad.

Come on Paul! Are ye afraid to look at the possibility that you brain-mind is foolin’ ya.
It created you because it was lonesome and needed the company, and you was a good thing to give it the attention it craved?
It made itself believe that it was a self?
Then it made that self believe that it was separate from that self so that it could tell that self that it created that self.

Or is it the reconciliation between the self that brain made and the brain, which saves that self brain made from believing in things it cannot observe and acknowledge.
Yet, it seems that we are establishing that things CAN exist even if they are NOT observed and acknowledged by that which is able to observe and acknowledge.
 
As I said in an earlier post:




I think the thing with ego is that it allows for the individual to personify their existence, in a way which is useful to external influences.
Those responses to the external influences are a product of the individuals sense of self which has largely been bestowed on the individual by the influence of external opinion.
External opinion largely consists of other individuals shaping the attitudes and opinions of the less informed, and this starts from a very early age.
The information which seeks to tell an individual who they are is one of the most powerful manipulative devices available.
This method of influence is not used only by the religious sector. It is used by every sector.
Also, when different types of individuals gather in one place, discussion is not so much the order of the day. The motivation is to express the particular entity each ego associates with, and often it is about winning other individuals over by convincing them that they are wrong about what they think of as their self, and that the group they support is…. and out comes the list of historical evidence of wrongdoing…

This is a constant thing, evident in daily activity, and certainly evident on the internet.

It may be no thing more than an expression of a basic need for survival.
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Hey Paul, individual brains self’s manipulating other individual brain self’s.
 
Navigator, please allow me a question.

Name a relative whom you knew and interacted with while they were alive, who is now dead.
Where is their soul now?
Did they have an individual soul?
Has the world ceased to exist since they died?
When you are dead, will the world exist?

Another poster has stated this, but slogging through this thread, I have only seen the old question; If a tree falls....

You seem to be heading into solipsism.
 
Navigator, please allow me a question.

Name a relative whom you knew and interacted with while they were alive, who is now dead.
Where is their soul now?
Did they have an individual soul?
Has the world ceased to exist since they died?
When you are dead, will the world exist?

Another poster has stated this, but slogging through this thread, I have only seen the old question; If a tree falls....

You seem to be heading into solipsism.
Click to expand...

solipsism - belief in self as only reality: the belief that the only thing somebody can be sure of is that he or she exists, and that true knowledge of anything else is impossible

Nope not me.

Name a relative whom you knew and interacted with while they were alive, who is now dead. Dad Grandad Grandma

Where is their soul now? Not in their bodies

Did they have an individual soul? No – they were an individual soul

Has the world ceased to exist since they died? No, I can verify that the world still exists

When you are dead, will the world exist? What is ‘dead’?

Oh that was talked of as well – dead is something the living acknowledge as an absence of a former thing, and even the body looks different without that former thing within it.

The world will still exist when I leave my body.

It has been pointed out to me that things can and do exist even if there is no ability to observe or acknowledge them as existing.
I tried to argue the other way and was shown the error of my thinking.


Now allow me a question please

Are you one of those individuals who believe that you are – as self – a creation of your brain?
Do you think that just because something is unable to observe or acknowledge something as existing, that it therefore cannot exist?
 
pchams said:
Navigator, please allow me a question.

Name a relative whom you knew and interacted with while they were alive, who is now dead.
Where is their soul now?
Did they have an individual soul?
Has the world ceased to exist since they died?
When you are dead, will the world exist?

Another poster has stated this, but slogging through this thread, I have only seen the old question; If a tree falls....You seem to be heading into solipsism.
Click to expand...
I hope you’re not looking for a straightforward answer.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Navigator said:
Did I mis-understand you about your belief that the brain is the creator of the sentient concept of the self?
Click to expand...

I don’t think so. I’m emphasizing that understanding the brain is very much work in progress, although the rate of new data coming in is encouraging. And just to speculate a bit: Can we eventually create intelligence that will surpass our own, and will such creation be self-aware in approximately the same way we are? Well, time will tell.

This in reference to the universe?
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Or sentience, consciousness, or acknowledging…

And if by everything we mean also that which is not directly observed or acknowledged by us.
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The question is: if we cannot know anything about it (it being by definition, unknowable), then I see little point in speculating about it. Why not deal with things that are knowable, there’s plenty of that. There are things we cannot directly observe but can infer, thus perhaps later, when new ways of observing comes about, we’re able to observe and confirm them.
 
The mind cannot be separated from the brain, without the brain there is no mind at all, change the brain, like with a stroke, and the mind is changed. Damage the brain and the mind is changed and depending on the location of the damage what this change will be, this has been show time and time again. There is no soul and there has been no need to use this magical idea after the brain has been shown to be us.

Paul

:) :) :)

This thread should be named "I Am Brain"
 
Paulhoff said:
The mind cannot be separated from the brain, without the brain there is no mind at all, change the brain, like with a stroke, and the mind is changed. Damage the brain and the mind is changed and depending on the location of the damage what this change will be, this has been show time and time again. There is no soul and there has been no need to use this magical idea after the brain has been shown to be us.

Paul

:) :) :)

This thread should be named "I Am Brain"
Click to expand...

Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor gave an interesting talk at this years TED conference; a personal account of her experience during a stroke, especially affecting the area in the brain responsible for making a distinction between self and the surrounding. She described it as inability to define the boundaries where her body ended and the things around here began; in effect, she didn’t recognize here body as hers.

A short story about that can be found here: http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/02/scientist-turns.html
 
Navigator said:
God, the center and focus of religious faith, a holy being or ultimate reality to whom worship and prayer are addressed. Especially in monotheistic...
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/search.aspx?q=god


I don't believe in any such so-called god Paul, and would find the introduction of such a thing, as disruptive to the intent of this thread - the intent and the way it is unfolding.

This is not to say that I discount the possible existence of similar, higher, vaster realities which are sentient.
But I would not worship such things. Or think them somehow in need of worship.
I would investigate the possibility of communing with this.
After all, that is what sentience does.
Click to expand...


O-oh! I feel some unintelligent designer at work here. Praise be!


M.
 
Navigator said:
Are you one of those individuals who believe that you are – as self – a creation of your brain?
Do you think that just because something is unable to observe or acknowledge something as existing, that it therefore cannot exist?
Click to expand...


Nav, if you haven't already, you might benefit from a read of this:

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-02-27.html#feature


The article is entitled, Consciousness is Nothing but a Word. It's written by someone who actually studies these things.


M.
 
Moochie said:
O-oh! I feel some unintelligent designer at work here. Praise be!


M.
Click to expand...
Yes, IDers are good at being backdoor people, and they act as if we don't know the difference between the backdoor and the frontdoor.

Paul

:) :) :)

We also know about the side doors too.

Windows etc.
 
Moochie said:
Nav, if you haven't already, you might benefit from a read of this:

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-02-27.html#feature


The article is entitled, Consciousness is Nothing but a Word. It's written by someone who actually studies these things.


M.
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=3477348#post3477348

I bothered to read this and tried not using the word but others were so what the hey. Seems that peps just wanna use words that are abstracts.
 
Paulhoff said:
Yes, IDers are good at being backdoor people, and they act as if we don't know the difference between the backdoor and the frontdoor.

Paul

:) :) :)

We also know about the side doors too.

Windows etc.
Click to expand...

Oh the webrains are gathered organized for what?
”(\” ^..^
 
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