"I am God" approach, version 1.0

Can someone quote me so that Avalon can read this? Relaxed for you Avalon,you can avoid the awkward questions that you have no answers to.
 
AvalonXQ said:
I believe I can lift a tennis ball from my table. Doing so lifts more weights off my table than Arnold has.
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That's a false analogy, unless you believe that Arnold cannot do what you can do. Read my post again:

AvalonXQ said:
I believe that I am at least as much stronger than Arnold as you are more powerful than Yahweh.
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Kuko 4000 said:
Ok, I believe that I can blow a tennis ball from my table.

Do you believe that you can lift as much weights as Arnold + a tennis ball on top of the weights?
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I'm hopeful that I don't need to explain the problem in your reasoning in more detail, but I am happy to do it if you want.
 
Kuko 4000 said:
That's a false analogy, unless you believe that Arnold cannot do what you can do.
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I believe that Arnold cannot do what I can do under the Kuko Method, by which only the lifting of Arnold at my instruction and not evidence of Arnold's prior lifting is acceptable.
In the nature of a Kuko claim:
I claim that I am as strong as Arnold. Prove me wrong.
 
AvalonXQ said:
I believe that Arnold cannot do what I can do under the Kuko Method, by which only the lifting of Arnold at my instruction and not evidence of Arnold's prior lifting is acceptable.
In the nature of a Kuko claim:
I claim that I am as strong as Arnold. Prove me wrong.
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Couple of things you don't seem to get here.

First, there are good reasons to believe that Arnold has lifted weights. There are no good reasons to believe that your God has created the universe.

Second, Arnold could pretty easily show everyone how much he could lift weights today, and on demand, and you could show it pretty easily to everyone as well.

Do you disagree here?

My claim was that I can blow a tennis ball from a table. I have no good reasons to believe that your God could even do that.
 
Kuko 4000 said:
First, there are good reasons to believe that Arnold has lifted weights. There are no good reasons to believe that your God has created the universe.
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Your reasons for believing that Arnold has lifted weights are based on the sources, individuals, records, and underlying principles that you trust.
These are the same bases upon which I believe that Yahweh has healed the sick.
Can you prove to me that your reasons for believing that Arnold has lifted weights are objectively better than my reasons for believing that Yahweh has healed the sick?
My point is that, whatever we believe or fail to believe, we are now way beyond the Kuko Method, which involves proof on demand -- it's based on the idea that neither of us can demand Yahweh to perform any God-like act of our choosing on our schedule. You say it's because Yahweh doesn't exist; I say it's because Yahweh doesn't blow tennis balls off tables just because we want Him to.
To illustrate the shortcomings of this method of proof, I presented you with another being (I chose Arnold as someone with a practical skill who nonetheless is famous enough to be beyond our reach) that neither of us can demand to perform at will.
Just as I can lift more at my kitchen table today than Arnold will choose to lift at my kitchen table today, so you can move more tennis balls today than Yahweh will likely choose to do. And this has no relationship to what they're able to do; only what we're able to prove.
 
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AvalonXQ said:
Your reasons for believing that Arnold has lifted weights are based on the sources, individuals, records, and underlying principles that you trust.
These are the same bases upon which I believe that Yahweh has healed the sick.
Can you prove to me that your reasons for believing that Arnold has lifted weights are objectively better than my reasons for believing that Yahweh has healed the sick?
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Yes. And I will do so if you want to.


My point is that, whatever we believe or fail to believe, we are now way beyond the Kuko Method, which involves proof on demand -- it's based on the idea that neither of us can demand Yahweh to perform any God-like act of our choosing on our schedule. You say it's because Yahweh doesn't exist; I say it's because Yahweh doesn't blow tennis balls off tables just because we want Him to.
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I think Yahweh exists only in the realm of ideas, I could be wrong, but you have shown me no good reasons to think otherwise. It is your default belief, so you have have the burden of "proof".

I have put my money on the line and offered to replicate every single God-like thing that your God can do. I have also offered to take the burden of proof on myself (!) and challenged your God to replicate things that I can do. I've looked at the history and I've looked at the present, no sign of your God, no reason for me to believe in your claim.


To illustrate the shortcomings of this method of proof, I presented you with another being (I chose Arnold as someone with a practical skill who nonetheless is famous enough to be beyond our reach) that neither of us can demand to perform at will.
Just as I can lift more at my kitchen table today than Arnold will choose to lift at my kitchen table today, so you can move more tennis balls today than Yahweh will likely choose to do. And this has no relationship to what they're able to do; only what we're able to prove.
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Ok, this seems to be the most important part here. Again, this does not make sense unless you believe that Arnold couldn't do it.
 
Kuko 4000 said:
I have put my money on the line and offered to replicate every single God-like thing that your God can do. I have also offered to take the burden of proof on myself (!) and challenged your God to replicate things that I can do.
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Again, the problem here is performance on demand. I offer to lift everything that Arnold lifts. I also challenge Arnold to lift what I lift. Arnold is providing just as much proof of his abilities as Yahweh is His, so if you claim that this says anything about Yahweh, I claim it says the same about Arnold.
And what it says about both is -- they don't take orders from us.


Ok, this seems to be the most important part here. Again, this does not make sense unless you believe that Arnold couldn't do it.
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By the Kuko Method, I can prove Arnold can't do it just because he doesn't show up to do it on demand.
We can move on to considering the quality of the written record, or evidence of feats performed in the past, once you concede that the Kuko method of proof on demand has failed to say anything about the abilities of Yahweh, Arnold, or anyone else.
 
Kuko 4000 said:
I don't quite get it, how would you differentiate a real God from a fake god if the only thing you got from them is the statement "I am God."?
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When you're roasting in My Hell you will know. Or you may kill an unbeliever or two for me then you'll get some virgins...or raisins.
 
Kuko 4000 said:
For just about infinite reasons, he could just be walking around down here and decide to have some fun talking to people. I don't understand where you get the idea that God must wish you to act in any particular way at all?
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Actually god likes bugs. The whole warming of the earth is just god's plot to make more bugs.
 
I Am God Hear Me Snore In Numbers Too Great to Ignore.

Kuko 4000 said:
You can do anything to prove me wrong. What would you do, as a christian?

Ask me to read your mind? Walk on the water? Shoot me?
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If this were the good old days I'd tie you to a tree and light you on fire then me and the neighbors would throw offal at you until the fire burned out. But nowadays all you'd need is a choir to follow you around singing your praises and your divinity is assured.
 
AvalonXQ said:
Again, the problem here is performance on demand. I offer to lift everything that Arnold lifts. I also challenge Arnold to lift what I lift. Arnold is providing just as much proof of his abilities as Yahweh is His, so if you claim that this says anything about Yahweh, I claim it says the same about Arnold.
And what it says about both is -- they don't take orders from us.




By the Kuko Method, I can prove Arnold can't do it just because he doesn't show up to do it on demand.
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Wait a minute, can't you really see the difference here?

1)

Arnold has a very credible track record of having lifted weights.

I don't think neither of us honestly doubts that Arnold could currently lift weights if asked to.

The reason we don't doubt Arnold's skills is that there is very good evidence that it has happened before, many times, everyone else can do it as well, and it doesn't break any known laws of physics.

Your claim was that you can lift more weights than Arnold. We both know that we could find this out, right?

2)

We don't have any good evidence of anything supernatural at all.

You believe in a being who can create matter, heal the sick and even blow a tennis ball from a table. I don't.

My claim was that I can replicate every single God-like thing that your God could do. But on this case, how could we find this out?


We can move on to considering the quality of the written record, or evidence of feats performed in the past, once you concede that the Kuko method of proof on demand has failed to say anything about the abilities of Yahweh, Arnold, or anyone else.
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It says only that we both believe that Arnold could weight lifts, but one of us doesn't believe that Yahweh could do anything God-like at all. I wouldn't even have any idea if your God could blow a tennis ball from a table.

Do you understand this difference?
 
Kuko 4000 said:
It says only that we both believe that Arnold could weight lifts, but one of us doesn't believe that Yahweh could do anything God-like at all. I wouldn't even have any idea if your God could blow a tennis ball from a table.

Do you understand this difference?
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I certainly understand the difference. However, it doesn't negate the flaw on your method of proof. Your method of proof doesn't demonstrate the powerlessness of an entity, but only your inability to control an entity.
It's the very fact that neither of us actually BELIEVE Arnold to be powerless that allows the analogy to work. Although neither of us believe Arnold to be powerless, by the exact same technique by which you are accusing Yahweh of being powerless, Arnold (and Bill Gates, and Oprah) is also powerless.
I'm not claiming that Arnold and Yahweh are in all ways the same. I'm saying that the demonstration fails them equally -- showing that the demonstration is flawed.
 
AvalonXQ said:
That being, acting the way you've described, might manage to successfully shake my faith in my understanding of the Bible.
Of course, unless you're willing to pony up such a display, you have not.
And, as long as my faith in the Bible remains intact, your claim to be the God it describes is patently false.
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The god of the bible? the One who made everything and got it wrong?
 
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