Huh? Terrorists???

[Oliver]

I'd like to ask you politically skilled people in here if you actually believe in this terrorists "War on Terror" Hype in here.

While I know that Terrorists are real, I don't believe that the Hype justifies legislative limitations of our Freedoms. Quite frankly, I believe it's a political game.

I also don't believe in a Al Qaida threat that is more dangerous than a pin in the ass for the western world in general who don't use to poke into a Beehive. The current politics also portrays that it's far away from being a priority and therefore I refuse to believe the Hype, especially because no one here in central Europe is afraid of them beside probably the UK.

And I will follow the arguments for and against it for a while for politeness reasons.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

The mainstream leftist opinion about this (which I agree with) is that al-Qaeda is a result of "blowback" --- the only reason they have any support is because the US is in the Middle East: supporting Israel, bombing Iraq, etc. Basically, the more people we kill over there, the more people we recruit to al-Qaeda. This is an over-simplification, but it's true enough. You don't win very many friends by killing their families.

Al-Qaeda is a criminal gang. They should be handled like one. The tactics that Bush uses to root them out is like using a rocket launcher to combat an infestation of fleas. (e.g., bragging about taking out one leader of al-Qaeda, and downplaying the fact they took out an entire neighborhood to do it....)

The US can't even handle the gangs in the US! Why does anybody think they can take out a gang halfway around the world?

 

[Darth Rotor]

I'd like to ask you politically skilled people in here if you actually believe in this terrorists "War on Terror" Hype in here.

Your last name must be Bauer, since you seem to raise a lot of straw on your farm.

While I know that Terrorists are real, I don't believe that the Hype justifies legislative limitations of our Freedoms. Quite frankly, I believe it's a political game.

What freedoms have you lost in Germany due to any War on Terror?

I also don't believe in a Al Qaida threat that is more dangerous than a pin in the ass for the western world in general who don't use to poke into a Beehive.

Al Qaeda has been around for longer than George Bush has been in the White House. They don't care what you believe, if you don't agree with them. Do you?

The current politics also portrays that it's far away from being a priority and therefore I refuse to believe the Hype, especially because no one here in central Europe is afraid of them beside probably the UK.

So what?

And I will follow the arguments for and against it for a while for politeness reasons.

How decent of you, Oliver Der Bauer.

DR

 

[Darth Rotor]

The US can't even handle the gangs in the US! Why does anybody think they can take out a gang halfway around the world?

In Bush's defense, he hasn't tried targeting LA gangs with 500# bombs, so the comparison isn't very apt.

DR

 

[Overman]

The current politics also portrays that it's far away from being a priority and therefore I refuse to believe the Hype, especially because no one here in central Europe is afraid of them beside probably the UK.

By 'Hype' do you mean the continued attacks and threats?

How many of the dead at 9/11 do you think knew about Al Queda? Their lack of knowledge/lack of fear did not prevent their death.

 

[parrotslave]

Yep, [SIZE=-1]Zacarias Moussaoui went to flight school here in town and there have been arrests of others funneling money to terrorist groups. We have a large community of recent immigrants from several war-torn muslim nations and there are bound to be a few bad eggs in the bunch.

But I'm more worried about the asteroid Apophis.[/SIZE]

 

[brodski]

I voted both that AQ is real and could strike tomorrow, and also that i am not afraid. I have lived under the threat of domestic terrorism all of my life, I've just missed bombs twice, so I've learned to keep my upper lip stiff in this regard.

AQ (or those inspired by them) pose a real threat, however there is a legitimate debate about what restriction should be put in place to mitigate that threat. I do not see that we have currently gone too far, and the Security Service seems to be doing a pretty good job at keeping a lid on things.

 

[slingblade]

I'm not very worried about terrorism affecting me, personally. I'm worried about what it's doing to general perceptions of certain people, religions, cultures, and places. By "it," I mean both the enacting of it and the responses to it.

Speaking perhaps hyperbolically, globalization seems to be working. A common enemy/common cause has been found around which the whole globe can polarize.

Paraphrasing Walt Kelly, we have met the enemy, and he could be any one of us.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Paraphrasing Walt Kelly, we have met the enemy, and he could be any one of us.

Except me.

DR

PS: Hooray for Walt Kelly refs!

 

[Darat]

I'm like Brodski - all my life has been lived under the immediate threat of domestic terrorism so AQ now targeting the UK is just more of the same, it does not affect how I live my life.

 

[Ziggurat]

I'm like Brodski - all my life has been lived under the immediate threat of domestic terrorism so AQ now targeting the UK is just more of the same, it does not affect how I live my life.

It doesn't affect your life, or it doesn't change your life? There's an important difference.

 

[Darat]

It doesn't affect your life, or it doesn't change your life? There's an important difference.

Perhaps my wording wasn't too clear because I don't understand the distinction you are making?

 

[Ziggurat]

Perhaps my wording wasn't too clear because I don't understand the distinction you are making?

Something changes your life if your life is different than it was previously. Something affects your life if your life is different than it would be without that thing. In this particular instance, for example, Islamic terrorism could affect your life, but if it affected your life the same way a previous threat (IRA terrorism) affected your life, then there might not be any change.

 

[Oliver]

Your last name must be Bauer, since you seem to raise a lot of straw on your farm.

What freedoms have you lost in Germany due to any War on Terror?

Al Qaeda has been around for longer than George Bush has been in the White House. They don't care what you believe, if you don't agree with them. Do you?

So what?

How decent of you, Oliver Der Bauer.

DR

Beside the fact that name-calling never really affects me, my last name would make you laugh because the familiarity to a very famous, political figure in the White House.

Anyway: My assumption so far is that Al Qaida is a response to Western Foreign Policies. That doesn't affect me and since I believe that 9/11 couldn't happen anymore in the way it did, I doubt that there is a threat against the US from terrorists swimming over the atlantic.

It's a hype - and I don't understand why people actually buy it.

 

[brodski]

It doesn't affect your life, or it doesn't change your life? There's an important difference.

Perhaps my wording wasn't too clear because I don't understand the distinction you are making?

It affects my life (in relatively minor ways) , random security checks going into work, not having any rubbish bins or left luggage lockers in the center of major cities, getting paranoid about unatended luggage and transport delays caused by the same- but its been pretty much like this all of my life so I have not noticed a change.

There was a short period from about 1998 to 2001 when things started to get a lot more relaxed- but that just seems like a blip.

One thing that i have not really noticed in the UK is fear of terrorism, even after 7/7 and 21/7 the attitude was more just mild paranoia and a sence of anger. Some of us where pretty bloody miffed indeed, but it also felt like business as usual.

 

[Darat]

Something changes your life if your life is different than it was previously. Something affects your life if your life is different than it would be without that thing. In this particular instance, for example, Islamic terrorism could affect your life, but if it affected your life the same way a previous threat (IRA terrorism) affected your life, then there might not be any change.

Ah right I understand.

On balance I would say the current threat of domestic terrorism from extremist Muslims does not seem to interfere as much in my day-to-day life as the threat of domestic violence from extremist Christians did say 15 years ago.

 

[Ziggurat]

Anyway: My assumption so far is that Al Qaida is a response to Western Foreign Policies.

This assumption is incorrect. Ever hear of a fellow by the name of Sayyid Qutb? He's one of the ideological forefathers of Al Qaeda. He hated America, with a passion. And his hatred was not born out of any foreign policy we were engaged it (it predated most of our supposed sins anyways), but was very much a hatred of who we were. There's a reason Barbie is outlawed in Saudi Arabia, and it's not because of her support for Israel.

 

[Oliver]

I'm like Brodski - all my life has been lived under the immediate threat of domestic terrorism so AQ now targeting the UK is just more of the same, it does not affect how I live my life.

So you agree that the threat is nothing new and also not more danger than before 9/11, just because the American Public was forced to accept this fact?

 

[Oliver]

This assumption is incorrect. Ever hear of a fellow by the name of Sayyid Qutb? He's one of the ideological forefathers of Al Qaeda. He hated America, with a passion. And his hatred was not born out of any foreign policy we were engaged it (it predated most of our supposed sins anyways), but was very much a hatred of who we were. There's a reason Barbie is outlawed in Saudi Arabia, and it's not because of her support for Israel.

Nope, I have no Idea who Qutb is - so why did he hate America?

 

[brodski]

So you agree that the threat is nothing new and also not more danger than before 9/11, just because the American Public was forced to accept this fact?

No- the threat in America was very different after 2001 than beofre.
the threat in the Uk went back to late 1990's levels.
We don't realy have politicians playing on public fear of terrorism here 9to any great extent) because the UK population and media got "terror fatigue" years ago.
This is not the case in the USA where terrorism is novel and frightening. Having 3000 citizens murdered on one day will tend to do that.