Hugo's Citgo a No-Go

It's a mysery to me that anyone in the US gives a spit about Chavez at all. He's a second tier small time dictator of a a third world country which poses absolutely no threat to the US, yet when he calls Bush devil, the nation goes to pieces. I can't believe Americans can be so thin skinned.

I"m surprised you'd write that after 50 years of Fidel.

Fidel didn't even have oil. Our elimination of trade with him was a one-sided disaster. They're still driving around over there in 1950's era "Chevies" that are kept together with bandaids, bubble gum, and blackmarketed parts (those who are lucky enough to afford a vehicle).

Yet Fidel was at the ccenterpoint of the near-beginning of WWIII in October of 1962, is rumored to have been involved in a U.S. presidential assasination, and has been a thorn in the American political side for my entire life (and I'm no spring chicken).

And Chavez appears to be nuttier than Fidel.
 
Yet Fidel was at the ccenterpoint of the near-beginning of WWIII in October of 1962, is rumored to have been involved in a U.S. presidential assasination, and has been a thorn in the American political side for my entire life (and I'm no spring chicken).


OK, Chavez is the next Castro...:rolleyes: If so, so what?

Is there a demonstrable threat to the US by Chavez? No.
 
OK, Chavez is the next Castro...:rolleyes: If so, so what?

Is there a demonstrable threat to the US by Chavez? No.

Er, I supplied a link a while back where he threatens to embargo the US. 2004, I think. So I think your "no" is a tad premature.

A better question is what threat does the US pose to Venezuela? Apart from making Hugo even filthier rich?
 
A better question is what threat does the US pose to Venezuela? Apart from making Hugo even filthier rich?

Not a big fan of Chavez, but that is an odd question coming from one as informed as you.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/ops/venezuela.htm

"On 11 April 2002 the head of Venezuela's National Guard said the military had taken control of the country from President Hugo Chavez. In a televised address, Gen. Alberto Camacho Kairuz said the Chavez administration had "abandoned its functions" and the armed forces chief of staff, Gen. Bernabe Carrero Cubero, said that military leaders had asked the president to resign and call for new elections. The country's richest business leaders, its largest labor confederation, its top military men and its most influential media had joined forces against Chavez.

Chavez returned to power on 14 April 2002 following the collapse of the coup leadership in the face of an emotional outpouring from supporters in slums and towns across the country. President Chëvez's comeback left Washington looking rather stupid. The national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, didn't help that impression when she cautioned the restored president to "respect constitutional processes."

The Inter-American Democratic Charter is an Organization of American States' agreement to condemn and investigate the overthrow of any democratically elected OAS member government and, if necessary, suspend the offender's membership. The charter was approved by the 34 OAS member nations in Lima, Peru, on 11 September 2001. Washington's lack of commitment to democracy in the region had been made clear by the response to the Chavez coup attempt. Over the past decade, previous Administrations had reacted promptly in similar situations in Paraguay, Ecuador, Peru and Guatemala -- publicly calling for an adherence to the rule of law. This time around, the US reaction was muted, first accepting Chavez´s ouster, then embracing the coup leaders, and finally accepting the lead of the OAS to condemn the coup. In previous crises, the US rallied other countries around the hemisphere.

In the months before the coup, the US Embassy in Caracas had sought to distance itself from coup rumors. US Ambassador Donna Hrinak, took the unusual step of asking the American military attache to cease contacts with the dissidents. But Washington's signals to Chavez's opponents had been open, and at the highest levels. On 05 February 2002 testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Secretary of State Colin Powell expressed concern "with some of the actions of Venezuelan President Chavez and his understanding of what a democratic system is all about." Similar remarks were made that same day by CIA director George Tenet. The opposition felt it had the green light from Washington to remove Chavez from power.

There were published reports that suggested that the US military provided intelligence or other assistance to the Venezuelan military as it conducted this coup. There were reports that Navy vessels carrying out exercises off Venezuela's Caribbean coast engaged in strategic communications jamming during the days of the coup. Immediately after the ouster, White House spokesman Ari Fleischer suggested that the administration was pleased that Mr. Chávez was gone. "The government suppressed what was a peaceful demonstration of the people," Mr. Fleischer said, which "led very quickly to a combustible situation in which Chávez resigned."

Within hours of the coup, Otto Reich, the assistant secretary for Western Hemisphere affairs, summoned a number of Latin-American ambassadors to his office and told them that Chavez had resigned and he urged them to support the new government. Reich reportedly phoned Venezuelan coup leader Pedro Carmona the day he took over as interim president, pleading with Carmona not to dissolve the National Assembly, which He said would be "a stupid thing to do," and would provoke an outcry. Subsequent reports suggest that this phone call was made by the US ambassador. "

Daredelvis
 
Not a big fan of Chavez, but that is an odd question coming from one as informed as you.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/ops/venezuela.htm


Okay, I see. A paranoid megalomaniac believes the US had something to do with the coup, and we're all supposed to go along with it and believe it too?

Uh-huh. There are reports. There are published reports. Published by who, and where, and why, remians unknown so as to maintain a paranoid megalomaniac's assumptions that the big, bad boogeyman is out to get him. All rooted in the Ari Fleischer comment that didn't express adequate angst over his apparent departure.

Good thing Ari didn't call him the devil, poot old Hugo would have come completely unhinged. :rolleyes:
 
Okay, I see. A paranoid megalomaniac believes the US had something to do with the coup, and we're all supposed to go along with it and believe it too?
What does Pat Robertson have to do with this?
 
If support of terrorism doesn't cause people to boycott gas stations, why should a few negative comments?
 
Originally Posted by Huntster
Yet Fidel was at the ccenterpoint of the near-beginning of WWIII in October of 1962, is rumored to have been involved in a U.S. presidential assasination, and has been a thorn in the American political side for my entire life (and I'm no spring chicken).
OK, Chavez is the next Castro...:rolleyes: If so, so what?

1) You wanna do that again?

2) Chavez has oil. In our backyard. Castro didn't.

Is there a demonstrable threat to the US by Chavez? No.

"Demonstrable?" Today? Maybe not.

Castro wasn't much of a threat in 1958, either.
 
1) You wanna do that again?

2) Chavez has oil. In our backyard. Castro didn't.

And that's a problem because...?

"Demonstrable?" Today? Maybe not.

Castro wasn't much of a threat in 1958, either.

Nor is he isn't a threat now. Chavez even less so, by your own admission. Yet it doesn't keep Americans from reverting to a bunch of bedwetters when his name is mentioned.
 
And should we let the leaders of the American buisness community off the hook?

Record profits! Insane retirement packages! and the poor prepare to freeze this winter because they can not afford to heat their houses.

At least Hugo is offering some relief that is more than I heard from the mouths of the American counterparts...

A mentally ill homeless guy offers you a sandwich while his daughter is malnourished. Do you accept it from him? That's the equivalent of Venezuela under Chavez offering low cost heating oil to poor Americans while the health statistics of his oil rich country are criminally low.
 
It's a mysery to me that anyone in the US gives a spit about Chavez at all. He's a second tier small time dictator of a a third world country which poses absolutely no threat to the US, yet when he calls Bush devil, the nation goes to pieces. I can't believe Americans can be so thin skinned.

It's a quid pro quo. A significant portion of the American media wants brown male "enemies". Chavez wants A List celebrity status. It's better to be infamous than unkown, in that calculation.
 


Yup, stand corrected. Should have said 40% of their output. Used to be higher:

However, the United States is the largest importer of Venezuelan oil -- purchasing at least 65 percent of the Venezuelan oil exports. In fact, Venezuela overtook Saudi Arabia as the top exporter of petroleum to the U.S. in first five months of 1995. From January to May 1995, Venezuela exported 1.43 million barrels per day of petroleum to the United States, but Saudi Arabia only exported 1.34 million barrels per day to the United States during that same period.2 This rise in U.S. dependency on Venezuelan petroleum is in part due American importers' concern about price hikes in Mexico and Middle Eastern countries since 1994.3

http://www.american.edu/TED/esp/venezuela-WTO.htm
 
Somebody is drilling off the coast of Florida and it ain't the U.S.:

Steve, you do know that you just quoted the "American Free Press" which is (for all intents and purposes) an organ of the US Nazi party. This "newspaper" is little more than a collection of paranoid racist rants, and any connection their stories have to reality is entirely coincidental.
For instance they are the primary "news" source used the the loose Change video.
I would be very wary at taking anything in that article at face value.
 
I hear 'ya but also heard it on the evening news.... plus
there are plenty of other sources for this news; this one came out on top of a google search the other day. Instead of trying to impeach unpleasant realities from an unacceptable messenger try searching China-Cuba Drilling Oil off Florida etc.

Chew on a few of these:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5321594.stm

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/nation/15611264.htm


Let me know if you find any nazis involved in them as I surmise the nazis love this story. If you read all of this you might find the extraordinary tale of how US Treasury Agents forced a hotel to throw out, yes evict, Cuban oil negotiators who were meeting with American Exxon people to discuss oil exploration. With friends like that working for U.S. taxpayers who needs enemies?


http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/com...?Nav=ns&lvl2=comp&ArticleID=1518-1783_1999141
 
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I hear 'ya but also heard it on the evening news.... plus

Thank you for the better sources, after having to wade through American Free Press links over at the loose change boards, I would ask for a second source if the AFP claimed that the sky was blue. :)
 
Originally Posted by Huntster
1) You wanna do that again?

2) Chavez has oil. In our backyard. Castro didn't.

And that's a problem because...?

1) We need oil
2) Our relationships with our other close oil producers, Mexico and Canada, arent the greatest
3) We can't seem to get past our self-imposed environmental stranglehold in order to get oil domestically
4) Need I mention our relationship with the oil rich Middle East nations?

Originally Posted by Huntster
"Demonstrable?" Today? Maybe not.

Castro wasn't much of a threat in 1958, either.

Nor is he isn't a threat now.

Again, he damned sure was in 1962.

Again, you wanna do that again?

Chavez even less so, by your own admission.

Again, today, maybe.

Tomorrow?

Yet it doesn't keep Americans from reverting to a bunch of bedwetters when his name is mentioned.

No need to wet the bed.

But there's plenty of justification for getting pissed off and concerned when the damned fool comes to New York and speaks/acts the way he did.
 

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