Hugo Chavez Loves Free Speech...

[Praktik]

Why should it be? It should not depend on where he is from, it should be decided on his actions.

So then, you actually think Stalin is a more apt comparison rather than figures who operated within similar socio-political contexts?

Interesting.

So how am I to grok that and this:

If you look back at post it was only because some other posters have used the name. I have not used it at all prior to this. Don't let that ruin your fun though. It was to make a point, not compare him to Stalin.

Cause here it looks like you're retreating somewhat from invoking the most evil person of the 20th century.

In any event, I'd really like to see what kind of evidence and proof of argument one could provide that would make me think Stalin is a more likely analogue for Chavez' Evil Potential than say, someone from the same hemisphere with a few million less in the body count and perhaps say, a military upbringing.

 

[DC]

Steal private companies at the end of a barrel of a gun.

ah new lies

i dunno how it is in the UK. but when your car is stolen, does the thief compensate you for your loss?

 

[funk de fino]

But is the data taken from elections or from the petition signatures (or somewhere else)?

I guess you could try and research it.

No. But I agree that the database is a bad thing.

Do you know why polls in Venezuela have a very high number of "dont knows" or "wouldnt answer"?

No... and action against the protesters is not even what we're talking about.

Strange then, because that is what RCTV and Globo reported on. Then they refused to switch to the govt propoganda of old Chavez speeches when told.

Also in this case the government actually was under threat, as evidenced by the coup..

From the military, by the military.

I disagree.

Then you have no idea what you are talking about.

I didn't say "the same laws" I said similar laws. The laws in both cases aren't about being "supportive", they're about providing air time.

Do you know why RCTV was taken off cble and satellite in January of this year? The very thing you say the Venezuela government does not enforce.

The equal-time rule specifies that U.S. radio and television broadcast stations must provide an equivalent opportunity to any opposing political candidates who request it. This means, for example that if a station gives one free minute to a candidate on the prime time, it must do the same for another candidate.

However, there are four exceptions: if the air-time was in a documentary, bona fide news interview, scheduled newscast or an on-the-spot news event the equal-time rule is not valid. Since 1983, political debates not hosted by the media station are considered news events, thus may include only major-party candidates without having to offer air time to minor-party or independent candidates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-time_rule

This is during elections and is irrelevant. Hence the use of "candidates" You knew that however. Nice try.

 

[funk de fino]

aka Nationalisation.
a good thing mostly

Even when the military is used to enforce it? It did not work out too well for the oil company did it? More that $13 billion owed to service companies last year.

not for exactly what i asked for. but its ok. the list is a very bad idea. even the chavistas said so.

Its a database now. Try and keep up, its still being used.

ah new lies

i dunno how it is in the UK. but when your car is stolen, does the thief compensate you for your loss?

In the UK if someone brings a gun and points it at me when they are buying my car, then they offer me half of what I want and I have to take it or leave it then that is theft. They would go to jail.

Try again DC.

 

[DC]

Even when the military is used to enforce it? It did not work out too well for the oil company did it? More that $13 billion owed to service companies last year.



Its a database now. Try and keep up, its still being used.



In the UK if someone brings a gun and points it at me when they are buying my car, then they offer me half of what I want and I have to take it or leave it then that is theft. They would go to jail.

Try again DC.

a good thing you are in the UK then, and Nationalisations cannot happen there. Still no stealing. Nationalisation with Compensation.

 

[funk de fino]

So then, you actually think Stalin is a more apt comparison rather than figures who operated within similar socio-political contexts?

No, I do not. Other people did. I continued the theme to make a point. Make another one up please? I really want to see just how far that imagination of your can go.

Interesting.

Yes, indeed.

So how am I to grok that and this:

Cause here it looks like you're retreating somewhat from invoking the most evil person of the 20th century.
In any event, I'd really like to see what kind of evidence and proof of argument one could provide that would make me think Stalin is a more likely analogue for Chavez' Evil Potential than say, someone from the same hemisphere with a few million less in the body count and perhaps say, a military upbringing.

Fail. The bolded part is correct in a way. I explained why he was invoked. You cannot get your bias around my explanation and think that I must think Chavez is Stalin. The rest of your post shows you have failed at comprehension.

A dictator is not judged on geography, he is judged by his actions. Others want to compare him to Stalin then they can do so. They would be wrong IMO. I was not saying he was and it's not my fault if you cannot think clearly enough to see that.

 

[funk de fino]

a good thing you are in the UK then, and Nationalisations cannot happen there. Still no stealing. Nationalisation with Compensation.

Epic fail again. It's even better when you think you are being smart and fail again. Nationalisations can and have happend in the UK. Nothing prevents them apart from the will of the govt. If my govt carried out forced nationalisations I would be out protesting about it not defending it on internet sites.

Stealing other peoples property.

The Chavistas think it is perectly acceptable to force private companies to take paltry compensation for their land, buildings and equipment while staring down the barrel of a gun.

Please explain again how nationalisations did well for the oil company, you seemed to have missed that part?

More that $13 billion owed to service companies last year.

 

[DC]

Epic fail again. It's even better when you think you are being smart and fail again. Nationalisations can and have happend in the UK. Nothing prevents them apart from the will of the govt. If my govt carried out forced nationalisations I would be out protesting about it not defending it on internet sites.

Stealing other peoples property.

The Chavistas think it is perectly acceptable to force private companies to take paltry compensation for their land, buildings and equipment while staring down the barrel of a gun.

Please explain again how nationalisations did well for the oil company, you seemed to have missed that part?

ah you missed the sarcasm try to keep up.

never claimed it did well to the oil company.

 

[funk de fino]

ah you missed the sarcasm try to keep up.

Poor excuse for your faux pas.

never claimed it did well to the oil company.

Nationalisation is bad then?

 

[DC]

Poor excuse for your faux pas.



Nationalisation is bad then?

we 2 have already talked about UK Nationalisations
so i knew exactly well about UK Nationalisation.


I think Nationalisation of key sectors is mostly a good thing.

 

[funk de fino]

we 2 have already talked about UK Nationalisations
so i knew exactly well about UK Nationalisation.

Except they were not Nationalisations.

I think Nationalisation of key sectors is mostly a good thing.

Even the key sector the entire economy is supported by and it is in crisis?

Thank christ you are not involved in Politics. I take it you would nationalise all the Swiss banks?

 

[DC]

Except they were not Nationalisations.



Even the key sector the entire economy is supported by and it is in crisis?

Thank christ you are not involved in Politics. I take it you would nationalise all the Swiss banks?

as a swiss i am involved in politics not only every 2 or 4 years.

Banks would stay as they are in switzerland. we have alot of cantonal banks.
But a bank in trouble, instead of giving them taxmoney ill Nationalise them.

 

[funk de fino]

as a swiss i am involved in politics not only every 2 or 4 years.

If banning muslim minarets is being involved in politics then I'll leave that to the Swiss

Banks would stay as they are in switzerland. we have alot of cantonal banks.
But a bank in trouble, instead of giving them taxmoney ill Nationalise them.

Really? What happened to your socialism? This flys in the face of your arguments and makes you look slightly hypocritical IMO. Chavez thinks bank Nationalisation is a good thing, do you disagree with him?

 

[DC]

If banning muslim minarets is being involved in politics then I'll leave that to the Swiss

yeah also Direct Democracy has its downside

Really? What happened to your socialism? This flys in the face of your arguments and makes you look slightly hypocritical IMO. Chavez thinks bank Nationalisation is a good thing, do you disagree with him?

my socialism is fine and well.
we do have alot Cantonal Banks, thats like nationalised Banks. im fine with them, i dont need the big privatly owned ones.

I think Banks should be mixed, Nationalised and Private.

 

[Meed]

I guess you could try and research it.

I did briefly and only came up with the petition names, but I couldn't find much which is why I asked. Are you responding that way because you don't know or are you just trying to be snarky?

Strange then, because that is what RCTV and Globo reported on.

Okay, and? I've been discussing the media and the government. You somehow construed this into implying I support shooting protesters, which is ridiculous, as well as being a separate topic (as presented).

From the military, by the military.

Point being...?

Then you have no idea what you are talking about.

Because...?

Eagerly awaiting defense of Fox News and RCTV being equivalent. Much as I hate Fox, they're a teddy bear in comparison. We haven't even gotten into RCTV's behavior post-coup, which was disgustingly irresponsible at best (and yes, way beyond the level of Fox News).

Do you know why RCTV was taken off cble and satellite in January of this year? The very thing you say the Venezuela government does not enforce.

Where did I say that exactly? That's the second time you've claimed I've said something I haven't (the first one being "You said there were the same laws in the US.")....

Oh well, maybe you misunderstood me or I worded something badly in an earlier post. I said, or at least intended to say, that they haven't utilized article 192 very often. Enforcement is another thing.

This is during elections and is irrelevant. Hence the use of "candidates"

"Irrelevant" meaning you don't think it's a similar law, just because it applies in a narrower context?

You knew that however. Nice try.

Now you're accusing me of dishonesty?

If you're going to insult me please restrict it to "stupid", "Chavez nut-hugger", "socialist scum" or anything along those lines. That kind of thing I can tolerate. Dishonesty, on the other hand, I take seriously. FYI I won't be continuing if you don't address this.

 

[Meed]

In the UK if someone brings a gun and points it at me when they are buying my car, then they offer me half of what I want and I have to take it or leave it then that is theft. They would go to jail.

This is the argument anarcho-capitalists use against taxes. Kind of a slippery slope reasoning-wise.

 

[Praktik]

No, I do not. Other people did. I continued the theme to make a point.
...
Fail. The bolded part is correct in a way. I explained why he was invoked. ...A dictator is not judged on geography, he is judged by his actions. Others want to compare him to Stalin then they can do so. They would be wrong IMO. I was not saying he was and it's not my fault if you cannot think clearly enough to see that.

Ok I get it, you jumped on the bandwagon in error and are now agreeing that Stalin comparisons are a bad fit for Chavez. Peer pressure works in mysterious ways..

 

[funk de fino]

I did briefly and only came up with the petition names, but I couldn't find much which is why I asked. Are you responding that way because you don't know or are you just trying to be snarky?

A mixture of snarkiness and the fact there are noddy guides out there in googleland that show you how to download it and use it for all sorts. It has data about salaries, social security numbers and classifies you as a pro or anti govt amongst other things. Throws up some interesting facts about govt employees salaries.

Okay, and? I've been discussing the media and the government. You somehow construed this into implying I support shooting protesters, which is ridiculous, as well as being a separate topic (as presented).

No, I do not think you support the shooting of protestors. I asked you a question.

Point being...?

You imply that by supporting the protests the media supported a coup. Chavez has even accused them of organising the coup. Do you think supporting protests aginst the govt are reasons to be chucked off air? Thats what they did and thats why Chavez is hounding them.

Because...?

Eagerly awaiting defense of Fox News and RCTV being equivalent. Much as I hate Fox, they're a teddy bear in comparison. We haven't even gotten into RCTV's behavior post-coup, which was disgustingly irresponsible at best (and yes, way beyond the level of Fox News).

Their bias is comparable. While you are at it why dont you bring the evidence that RCTV did anything wrong. What did they get taken off the air for again according to officials? A media station does not have to show counter protests if it does not want to. Why should the govt have that power? Would Fox news give favourable coverage to counter protests to the tea partiers? Would it get taken off the air for only showing tea party protests?

This is not the BBC we are talking about it is not goverened by national rules on impartiality.

Where did I say that exactly? That's the second time you've claimed I've said something I haven't (the first one being "You said there were the same laws in the US.")....

Oh well, maybe you misunderstood me or I worded something badly in an earlier post. I said, or at least intended to say, that they haven't utilized article 192 very often. Enforcement is another thing.

They were forced off the cable and satellite because they would not broadcast Chavez propoganda. You intimated this was not something the govt would do or did do? What do you think Fox would have to say about that?

"Irrelevant" meaning you don't think it's a similar law, just because it applies in a narrower context?

It's nothing alike. It covers specific things that the Chavez law does not. During elections. Not all the time. On a whim.

Now you're accusing me of dishonesty?

What was the reason you brought a quote that did not support your arguments? Maybe you just thought we were too stupid to realise. If it is just that you thought I was too stupid then I apologise if I intimated it was dishonesty. I am not too stupid to realise your quote was irrelevant to this discussion though.

If you're going to insult me please restrict it to "stupid", "Chavez nut-hugger", "socialist scum" or anything along those lines. That kind of thing I can tolerate. Dishonesty, on the other hand, I take seriously. FYI I won't be continuing if you don't address this.

I dont think you are stupid. Why would I call you socialist scum? I do not even know your political affiliations and it seems you have jumped to conculsions about mine.

Is Fox news supportive of Obama or the Dems? Are they forced to broadcast Democratic propoganda whenever Obama wants it to be shown under threat of closure?

 

[funk de fino]

This is the argument anarcho-capitalists use against taxes. Kind of a slippery slope reasoning-wise.

To be fair, he asked the question and I answered him with exactly what would happen. It's not my fault if he used a piss poor analogy or comparison.

Perhaps you can come up with a better one for him?

 

[funk de fino]

my socialism is fine and well.
we do have alot Cantonal Banks, thats like nationalised Banks. im fine with them, i dont need the big privatly owned ones.

I think Banks should be mixed, Nationalised and Private.

That is not the Bolivar way. Chavez disagrees with you. Good job you do not own a bank in Venezuela eh?