Merged How Trump has Emboldened Bigots, Racists and Nazis

[theprestige]

Are they feeling empowered, or are they just getting more of the spotlight now than they did before?

The OP is a little light on actual data, but sure, I bet they're feeling empowered. The question is, empowered to do what? Speak openly, obviously. What else? The thread this spun off from has tried to build a case that they've felt empowered to commit a massive wave of hate crimes. Have we seen that? With data, I mean. Not anecdotally.

But the subtext of these threads is simply, "everybody not on the left is a Trump-empowered racist hate criminal." Which is probably why it gets so much pushback.

 

[ahhell]

I would characterize NAZI's, KKK and what not as being emboldened by Trump's presidency, not empowered.

Its worth noting that there big moment in charlotte attracted a few hundred people from a nation of millions though.

 

[theprestige]

Sure the issue is how Trump has effected the beliefs and actions of the white supremacists. And has his rhetoric shifted people to embrace white supremacy who hadn't thought about it in the past.

Trump doesn't strike me as the kind of compelling public speaker whose rhetoric could toggle someone from "hasn't thought about embracing white supremacy" to "has embraced white supremacy". Especially since his rhetoric has not, to my knowledge really touched on the topic at all.

Can you perhaps give one or two examples of rhetoric you think has a serious potential to convert a disinterested person to white supremacy?

I'm imagining something like, "I hadn't thought about it before, but now that Trump called Hillary a 'nasty woman', I'm going to embrace white supremacy!" Is that what you had in mind?

Though FoolmeOnce made basicly the same thread, so they should probably be merged.

Probably. At least one of you managed to scrape up a relevant anecdote to work with. Seems like both of you should get the benefit.

 

[theprestige]

In with the first distraction. I think the Dodge Ball thread is in Sports.

Aw, c'mon. That thread title was begging for it. Anyway, the joke's been made, let's move on. It's not a distraction unless you make it a distraction.

Do you deny that Trump's cozy relationship with Bannon and the Mercers has given rise to the voices of the foul right wing extremists?

Nope. Why? Were you hoping I would?

 

[tyr_13]

Well, they say they are and behave as if they are, so, yes. I'm not seeing how someone could reasonably argue with that as the question is posed.

 

[tyr_13]

I'd argue that the overwhelming mechanism emboldening the white supremacists isn't so much Trump or his words, but the reactions of others too them. It has shown white supremacists that the vast majority of Republicans and many independents will hand wave and outright defend blatantly racist statements. That bald-faced racism at high levels doesn't have the kinds of consequences we once thought they did/should have. They'll deny racism as a problem to the point of arguing that a person saying an American born judge can't do his job because of his race isn't racist. It is. Full stop.

They see this as a wink and a nudge, because they know it is, and they fully believe others know it is too, and are thus defending racism as long as there is the faintest thing that might be mistake for a fig leaf over it.

 

[Trebuchet]

Though FoolmeOnce made basicly the same thread, so they should probably be merged.

Except he used "empowered". I think "emboldened" is closer to the mark.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Trump doesn't strike me as the kind of compelling public speaker whose rhetoric could toggle someone from "hasn't thought about embracing white supremacy" to "has embraced white supremacy". Especially since his rhetoric has not, to my knowledge really touched on the topic at all.

Can you perhaps give one or two examples of rhetoric you think has a serious potential to convert a disinterested person to white supremacy?

I'm imagining something like, "I hadn't thought about it before, but now that Trump called Hillary a 'nasty woman', I'm going to embrace white supremacy!" Is that what you had in mind?

Is it possible that you don't understand what "embolden" means? Hint: It does not mean "convert". Knowing that you are rather intelligent, I'm gonna call "Misdirection!" yet again.

This seems to be a topic that our conservative brethren are unable to address directly.

Probably. At least one of you managed to scrape up a relevant anecdote to work with. Seems like both of you should get the benefit.

It doesn't matter. You won't address the issue, anyway.

I've asked that the threads be merged. I think we're both begging the question, anyway. The fact is that Trump and his Alt-Right buddies (they didn't clean them all out by moving Bannon back to his bully pulpit at Breitbart) have emboldened the dark underbelly of the GOP.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Well, they say they are and behave as if they are, so, yes. I'm not seeing how someone could reasonably argue with that as the question is posed.

I'm begging the question in the OP (as I mentioned in the near-duplicate thread).

 

[applecorped]

Trump's election has certainly empowered the bigots on the left.

This

 

[Noztradamus]

Does Trump actually exist or is he a straw man set up for purposes of drawing out some deplorable racist, homophobe Nazi so that we can all make fun of them, again?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

and without even seeing the hypocrisy involved.

Not seeing any hypocrisy there, sorry.

 

[The Big Dog]

Hating bigots is the worst kind of hate, the kind that targets white men.

I was going to say no, until I saw this post, and then I had to change my answer to:

yes, some bigots anyway.

 

[theprestige]

I'm begging the question in the OP (as I mentioned in the near-duplicate thread).

Which is disappointing. In the thread you split from, it seemed like you thought there was a serious problem, and you wanted to bring forward evidence for us to consider. I distinctly remember suggesting that if you really thought so, you should probably start a new thread to make your case free of that clown show's unfortunate baggage. So here you are. But instead of bringing a case with evidence, you step right into Betteridge's Law and... then nothing, really. At least the near-duplicate thread comes up with an anecdote to start with. Here we're left with little more than inanities and banalities. I'm thinking Noztradamus has it about right.

In the other thread you invited my thoughtful input. Here I'm doing the best I can, but so far you haven't given us much to work with.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Which is disappointing. In the thread you split from, it seemed like you thought there was a serious problem, and you wanted to bring forward evidence for us to consider. I distinctly remember suggesting that if you really thought so, you should probably start a new thread to make your case free of that clown show's unfortunate baggage. So here you are. But instead of bringing a case with evidence, you step right into Betteridge's Law and... then nothing, really. At least the near-duplicate thread comes up with an anecdote to start with. Here we're left with little more than inanities and banalities. I'm thinking Noztradamus has it about right.

In the other thread you invited my thoughtful input. Here I'm doing the best I can, but so far you haven't given us much to work with.

Well, there ya go, thinking again! You will be run out of the New GOP if you keep that up.

Betteridge's Law is about as valid as the Rule of So. Some pithy crap someone made up and that people over-apply.

Maybe you should go start a thread: Resolved Trump Does Not Cater to Racists and Nazis - Documentary Proof Only

This one is for open discussion and opinions, as are most threads in SI&CE. It's an ongoing event. "Racist Pig Elected President" was on election day. "What Are the Effects of having a Racist Pig in the White House?" is not going to be documented other than anecdotally* until some actual data has come in.

*And you'll be the first at the "that's just anecdotes" buffet line.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Which is disappointing. In the thread you split from, it seemed like you thought there was a serious problem

And merely harassing blacks and jews is of course normal and what they should expect.

 

[uke2se]

Yes, they do.

As stated above, they say they do and they act like they do. There's no reason to think they don't.

The question Trump apologists need to ask themselves is 'why'. The rest of us already know.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Trump doesn't strike me as the kind of compelling public speaker whose rhetoric could toggle someone from "hasn't thought about embracing white supremacy" to "has embraced white supremacy". Especially since his rhetoric has not, to my knowledge really touched on the topic at all.

And who would have though gamergate lead to lots of people embracing nazi ideology, but it does seem to work out that way.

 

[uke2se]

I'd argue that the overwhelming mechanism emboldening the white supremacists isn't so much Trump or his words, but the reactions of others too them. It has shown white supremacists that the vast majority of Republicans and many independents will hand wave and outright defend blatantly racist statements. That bald-faced racism at high levels doesn't have the kinds of consequences we once thought they did/should have. They'll deny racism as a problem to the point of arguing that a person saying an American born judge can't do his job because of his race isn't racist. It is. Full stop.

They see this as a wink and a nudge, because they know it is, and they fully believe others know it is too, and are thus defending racism as long as there is the faintest thing that might be mistake for a fig leaf over it.

This is entirely correct. When there's no consequences for being racist, racists will thrive.

 

[ponderingturtle]

This is entirely correct. When there's no consequences for being racist, racists will thrive.

Hell being a racist opens up new job opportunities in the justice department now.