How to fix black America?

[Distracted1]

The African-American community has the following problems at much higher rates than whites and the USA and general:

-crime

-poverty

-low high school & college graduation rates

-single parent homes

-drug use

-unemployment


The government tried to deal with some of these issues with welfare programs such as Section 8, SNAP, WIC, TANF, but these only helped the very immediate financial issues without helping anyone become self-reliant.

So what do we need to do? Is there anything larger society can do or does the black community have to literally fix itself?

In my view, inroads could be made into ameliorating some of these issues through a comprehensive effort to desegregate American culture.

Approached aggressively from each end of the income ladder. Middle class and wealthy individuals should be incentivized to make their lives in what are currently poor and minority communities, and all new residential development should be made to include low, and low-middle income housing.

 

[332nd]

So no comment about Chigozie Obioma's claim:
"There Are No Successful Black Nations and the indignity and helplessness of blacks in America won’t end until we have a first-world African nation to lift up our people."
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/08/09...nations-africa-diginty-racism-pan-africanism/

Can't say I'm too shocked, but this is supposed to be a skeptic's forum and Obioma is hardly a crank. Perhaps the point he's making deserves some merit...

Ok... How would a nation qualify as successful in his eyes?

 

[theprestige]

Ok... How would a nation qualify as successful in his eyes?

He gives some hints in the article:

Great men like Marcus Garvey, W. E. B. Du Bois, and Malcolm X all knew that a people is only respected when it has a nation worthy of respect. A man who lives in a shack cannot expect to be treated with respect at a palace. They knew that for us to reclaim power we must first reclaim dignity and that this comes through the construction of a solid black state with a demonstrable level of development and prosperity — and which can stand as a powerful advocate for the global black.​

In comparison to these positive traits, he also gives some hints about how a nation would qualify as unsuccessful:

Nigeria, the most populous black nation on Earth, is on the brink of collapse. The machineries that make a nation exist, let alone succeed, have all eroded. One might argue that the nation’s creation by self-seeking white imperialists engendered its failure from the beginning, as I did in my recent novel. But this is only a part of the cause. A culture of incompetence, endemic corruption, dignified ineptitude, and, chief among all, destructive selfishness and greed has played a major role in its unravelling. The same, sadly, can be said for most other African nations. States like Zimbabwe, Cameroon, and Equatorial Guinea are farcical democracies ruled by men who exclusively cater to their interests and those of their clipped circles.
Thus, it is no surprise that in the absence of any healthy black nation — in the midst of chaos, senseless wars, corrupted religiosity, violence, and economic collapse — African and Caribbean people leave home en masse.​

But read the whole essay. It's kind of interesting.

 

[332nd]

He gives some hints in the article:

Great men like Marcus Garvey, W. E. B. Du Bois, and Malcolm X all knew that a people is only respected when it has a nation worthy of respect. A man who lives in a shack cannot expect to be treated with respect at a palace. They knew that for us to reclaim power we must first reclaim dignity and that this comes through the construction of a solid black state with a demonstrable level of development and prosperity — and which can stand as a powerful advocate for the global black.​

In comparison to these positive traits, he also gives some hints about how a nation would qualify as unsuccessful:

Nigeria, the most populous black nation on Earth, is on the brink of collapse. The machineries that make a nation exist, let alone succeed, have all eroded. One might argue that the nation’s creation by self-seeking white imperialists engendered its failure from the beginning, as I did in my recent novel. But this is only a the cause. A culture of incompetence, endemic corruption, dignified ineptitude, and, chief among all, destructive selfishness and greed has played a major role in its unravelling. The same, sadly, can be said for most other African nations. States like Zimbabwe, Cameroon, and Equatorial Guinea are farcical democracies ruled by men who exclusively cater to their interests and those of their clipped circles.
Thus, it is no surprise that in the absence of any healthy black nation — in the midst of chaos, senseless wars, corrupted religiosity, violence, and economic collapse — African and Caribbean people leave home en masse.​

But read the whole essay. It's kind of interesting.

I did read it.

If someone claimed that Trump was going to bring back slavery by sentencing all illegal immigrants to life in prison including children & unborn children. Then they hinted "His words about illegal immigrants shows this." Wouldn't it be a good idea to ask for specifics?

 

[Caper]

There was nothing in the quote I used about blaming "White Society" for keeping him down. I quoted him saying that America feels like a different place for people whose ancestors "were brought here against their will in chains. To be sold as property." There was no mention of him blaming his current situation on white society. That's you projecting; you can't see that?

I wonder if knowing that is bad for you? In my experience people will use about anything to pin blame on and getting in that mindset can be very toxic. If could easily see a person convincing themselves that studying for a whole weekend is not important because no matter how much they study racism will keep them down anyway.

 

[Eddie Dane]

As a buddy of mine (who happened to be black) once said to me:



The history is so terrible I don't know how or whether we ever get past it. I think in historical terms we're still too close to it to even think rationally about America's racial history. Slavery endured in the U.S for ninety years. Generations of African Americans were born slaves, died slaves, saw their children enslaved. And their children's children. They knew nothing else, had no reason to expect things would change.

White Americans need to try and imagine what life would be like when you're existing as someone else's property. They own you. Horrible.

My family were slaves so recent in our past that I've personally met them (my grandfather died in 1977). The Nazis killed nearly my entire family on my mother's side. My grandfather did forced labour until the Russians came close and then escaped from a death march.

I have nowhere nearly such a negative opinion of Germans as many African Americans seem to have of America and white people.

Going through my family (and my German/Italian wife's) history we see death camps, a German ancestor killed by Italian Partisans for being German, the Battle of Stalingrad, my wife's family being completely dispossessed after WW1, rape by Russians at the end of WW2, my family bombed when the centre of Rotterdam was flattened by the Luftwaffe and a whole bunch of other bad ****.

I realise the black Americans see their current problems as a direct continuation of their second-class status back then, but history didn't just happen to black people.

 

[banquetbear]

I didn't mention aboriginals because they simply aren't relevant to the point I was making.

...you've certainly "made a point" but not the point you think you were making. Because this:

I know of a country full of white people who could say the same thing your friend said. But we just call ourselves Australians and get on with it. Slave/Transported convict. Tell me there's a difference 200 years later.

...is so amazingly tone-deaf it is difficult to know how to respond. White Australia pushed "Black Australia" off their lands, displaced them, killed them, marginalised them, and generally have treated them like **** and are still treating them like ****. But thats okay: because "White Australia just call themselves Australian and get on with it." Indigenous Australians didn't even get the vote until 1967. They most certainly are relevant to your point.

Do you want to read about "Australian aboriginals being imprisoned for petty crimes?" Have a read of this:

https://newmatilda.com/2016/08/31/t...g-a-rational-response-to-another-black-death/

And just count yourself lucky this thread isn't about how we "fix Australia".

 

[Elind]

This is all silly tiptoeing around not saying certain things. The majority of black Americans in the USA are doing quite well and work damned hard, but there is a subset culture that one can see in many neighborhoods around certain street corners when others are at work, or past midnight when others are asleep.

It is guaranteed that all of them dropped out of school, have never had a steady job and don't own belts and listen to rappers who aren't allowed on public radio. Why? Because they were raised by mothers who had the same start, and then by grandmothers who couldn't control them, and they all have siblings in the same boat.

The reason is that we do nothing aggressive to help single mothers prevent unwanted pregnancy, or educate them about the consequences and we do nothing serious to show young men, boys, without role models other than obscene rappers and their fellow dropouts, that they could have a decent future.

Instead we just say that it's a free society and give up, and sometimes blame it on slavery from many generations ago and pretend that it is the justice system that puts proportionally more black Americans in jail, not what they did. That any poor person of any color gets a worse deal than someone who can afford lawyer is a fact of life, but there are plenty of poor whites in jail who can make the same argument.

Our entire legal system is based on punishment (and indirectly consequential indoctrination in crime and hatred).

There is no simple solution and all solutions are long term and expensive. The attitude that it is all just simple racial discrimination (which is not to discount it) is just an excuse to do nothing that takes effort and money.

 

[icebear]

How to fix black America??

Simple: Outlaw and ban the demmunist/de-moKKKer-Rat party. More than 90% of the problems which black people experience living in America would evaporate within two years.

 

[Mumbles]

How to fix black America??

Simple: Outlaw and ban the demmunist/de-moKKKer-Rat party. More than 90% of the problems which black people experience living in America would evaporate within two years.

Why are you even trying?

Do you think we can't hear the current republican nominee?

 

[Minoosh]

Are we simply assuming that suspension rates are due to discrimination, or have we eliminated other possibilities (e.g. black students being less disciplined -- which I must admit, is frightening, seeing how undisciplined students normally are.)?

Which leads me to a thought. From what I have seen the difference in "good schools" and "bad schools" largely boils down to effective classroom management, which takes a big investment in training and supporting teachers. It's a very difficult skill to master. The U.S. has a kind of sink-or-swim approach to this; teachers are often left to figure it out on their own. It's not something you can learn only from books, although there are good books out there. Also many good videos.

Here is one that is corny as hell but still relevant (audio gets better after start).

Left on their own kids will begin to goof off. How the "good" teacher has handled the class up to that, and how he recovers when re-entering the room, is far different than what the "bad" teacher does.

The problem may be worse in minority schools because the minority kids may bring more life problems to the classroom. Such classes can be turned around but it takes black-belt people skills, planning and perseverance. A lot of teachers give up before they can get really good at it. Or maybe they get a somewhat easier gig in the suburbs - easier because teachers want to work there and districts can cherry-pick the best, meaning students are more consistently trained into good classroom behavior. So a cycle develops.

 

[twinstead]

How to fix black America??

Simple: Outlaw and ban the demmunist/de-moKKKer-Rat party. More than 90% of the problems which black people experience living in America would evaporate within two years.

Ah, the "outside agitator" meme.

 

[baron]

I'm no expert on the subject but I'd suggest a good first step is to de-polarise the debate. One side says that black problems are all the fault of white people. The other says black people are entirely responsible for their own situation. Is it surprising that no progress has been made in recent decades?

 

[twinstead]

I'm no expert on the subject but I'd suggest a good first step is to de-polarise the debate. One side says that black problems are all the fault of white people. The other says black people are entirely responsible for their own situation. Is it surprising that no progress has been made in recent decades?

Good luck with de-polarizing anything nowadays

 

[thaiboxerken]

Why are you even trying?

Do you think we can't hear the current republican nominee?

The "black problem" is more of an issue to white people, according to conservatives. There was not a "black problem" when they were slaves. Democrats have perpetuated the problem by giving those people more rights, more political power, and tricking them into thinking that they are equal to white people.

 

[Mumbles]

The "black problem" is more of an issue to white people, according to conservatives. There was not a "black problem" when they were slaves. Democrats have perpetuated the problem by giving those people more rights, more political power, and tricking them into thinking that they are equal to white people.

Of course. We're simply on "the democrat plantation."

And not simply judging presidential candidates based on their words, same as everyone else.

I honestly don't think even Hillary Clinton will fix everything. But at least with her, there will be a discussion. Trump, again, is a white nationalist. He'll do no good.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Of course. We're simply on "the democrat plantation."

While it's not on the "the democrat plantation" it is in many ways still "on the plantation."

While they were emancipated, blacks started out with nothing. Many went from being slaves to indentured servants getting a few dollars for what they used to have to do as property.

Many whites see blacks are little more than "the help" and a black person raising above their station is uppity. Sure you can have the token black surgeon or lawyer, as long as they all don't start believing that they should get equal education to Whites and be able to have the high paying jobs of the masters.

Most non-Hispanic White families own their own homes (74.4% in 2010). Most Black and Hispanic Families do not, just 45.4% and 47.5% respectively.

This gives whites a huge advantage in wealth from the very start.

Consider these figures from 2015

The median income for a white person in the US was $60,250. For a black person the median income was just 59% of that being $35,400!

Blacks are subjected to poorer schools and education and excepted to end up in more menial and low paid jobs, perpetuating the cycle of poverty that they are trapped in unless they are about to excel at sports, or crime.

The median household wealth of a white family in the US is $134,230.

For Blacks, it is not even 10% of that, just $11,030!

How is a black student supposed to attend university when even going to their own State University can easily cost that much a year! Going to an Ivy League University can cost $60,000+ a year, so far beyond the abilities of a black student that it's not even a consideration for them.

Add to this other issues such as solo parent families (66% vs 25%) and the know issues with the Justice system convicting and incarcerating young blacks are far greater rates and for longer sentences than whites even for the same actions, and the poverty trap is pretty much completed.

In short, this is a problem that will not be fixed easily, and certainly not in just a few years. It has to start at the top, with getting better education and creating opportunities for blacks to take their place beside whites in all walks of life, and that means a lot of whites need to change their attitudes and not look at a black family moving into the suburbs and mutter, well there goes the neighbourhood.

 

[dudalb]

Problem can't be fixed. Ship them back to Africa.
There, I have saved our resident "White Nationalist" the trouble of posting.........

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Problem can't be fixed. Ship them back to Africa.
There, I have saved our resident "White Nationalist" the trouble of posting.........

With or without cash value equivalent of 40 acres and a mule?

 

[Minoosh]

I'm no expert on the subject but I'd suggest a good first step is to de-polarise the debate. One side says that black problems are all the fault of white people. The other says black people are entirely responsible for their own situation. Is it surprising that no progress has been made in recent decades?

I'm not sure that will work as a first step - depolarization isn't going to come easily. What I'd like to see is a corps of apprentice teachers learning how to manage classrooms in inner-city environments, or other places that need it. The current sink-or-swim method of training teachers just encourages feelings of burnout and isolation. Get some teamwork going on in challenging classrooms. This can be incredibly fun and rewarding for both students and staff. Gradually these apprentices can pursue full certification and become effective classroom leaders, or choose to remain as utility fielders who have good relationships with the children or adolescents they work with.

This does not require any deep shakeup or broad education reform. Incremental changes to bring best teaching practices to poor neighborhoods are very doable. In some high-performing countries teachers spend 12 hours a week in the classroom. The rest is spent planning and fine-tuning lessons. In the U.S. some teachers are in the classroom 30 hours a week. That is unsustainable for most people. Having another adult in the room relieves the stress of teaching dramatically. It allows kids to get individual attention or be grouped in ways that make the most of peer-to-peer learning. It would require some funding, but a little can go a long way; paraprofessionals can be used strategically, during practice time for example when kids need to be monitored to keep them on task. I have seen this working in schools with 100 percent low-income minority enrollment. We don't need to hope for miracles or find some superhero to rescue schools. We know what works. IMO this could go a long way toward "fixing" black America. Education. Not studying it, theorizing about it or administrating it, but doing it. It will require some investment but the upside is enormous. Not everyone can be Jaime Escalante - the teacher of "Stand and Deliver" fame - but everyone can improve. Just care about the kids, have high expectations and make sure teachers are developed to their full potential. It can be done. We will learn to cooperate by cooperating. This isn't even about race. Yes, some depolarization is in order but that will happen as a natural result. There is no blame to apportion, just a job that needs to be done.