How to fix black America?

Life seven generations ago, sure. Not recently though. And I'll bet your black friend had the assets to buy a ticket back to his ancestral home too, but chose to stay here. His choice- 2nd class citizen, or live as a herder, eating kefir and blood drained from his cows?

2 generations or so there STILL was segregation, and only recentely an icon of civil right dead of age.

Care to revisit your "not recently" ?

And that's not even counting the shenanigan the republican intentionally do on voting in order to suppress spanish/black votes. Or event the recent report on fergusson where the police was factually targeting black folk more without reason.

Again, care to revisit that "not recently" ?

Some of the problem cited above are intrinsic to *any* poor community. Supress the thread title and I could swear the op was speaking of my home city.
 
I bet he still has the choice today. Quit his bitching about how bad gr-gr-gr-great-grammpa had it, when he can go back to his ethnic home anytime he wants to. ...snip...


You do know the rest of the world has things called other countries than the USA and these "other countries" also have things called borders and immigration laws?
 
...I'll bet your black friend had the assets to buy a ticket back to his ancestral home too, but chose to stay here.
Where would we he buy a ticket to? He doesn't know where he's from, how would he know, all ties were severed centuries ago. Buy a one-way ticket to "Africa," you mean?

His choice- ...live as a herder, eating kefir and blood drained from his cows?
A co-worker I got pretty friendly with was from Nigeria. He had worked in Nigeria's national bank, his father was an officer in the military. His older brother had a degree in chemical engineering and worked for a multi-national. In the early 1990s they offered him a chance to immigrate to the United States. He liked it but missed his family and was able to convince his younger brother (my pal) to join him around 1998. His brother got a job in the company where I was working and that's where we met. He used to laugh and say the only place in Nigeria where he ever saw a lion was in the local zoo. Also, when people at work complained about traffic conditions during their commute, he used to say New York traffic was bad but traffic in Lagos had been "much much worse. Terrible!"

I think you need to get out more. ;)
 
And you've only had even theoretical equality before the law as a country for what less than 50 years?

Don't forget that it wasn't too long ago that we rounded up Asians and stuck them in concentration camps. Blacks aren't the only group that have had it rough. I can't think of a more persecuted group of people than Jews.
 
Another thought re comparison between USA and Africa-

I'm sure there are places in Africa that have black laborers, black managers, black business owners. Do you think the laborers blame White Society for keeping them down?
 
Where would we he buy a ticket to? He doesn't know where he's from, how would he know, all ties were severed centuries ago. Buy a one-way ticket to "Africa," you mean?


A co-worker I got pretty friendly with was from Nigeria. He had worked in Nigeria's national bank, his father was an officer in the military. His older brother had a degree in chemical engineering and worked for a multi-national. In the early 1990s they offered him a chance to immigrate to the United States. He liked it but missed his family and was able to convince his younger brother (my pal) to join him around 1998. His brother got a job in the company where I was working and that's where we met. He used to laugh and say the only place in Nigeria where he ever saw a lion was in the local zoo. Also, when people at work complained about traffic conditions during their commute, he used to say New York traffic was bad but traffic in Lagos had been "much much worse. Terrible!"

I think you need to get out more. ;)

Looks like a good choice for your one friend would be Nigeria. Heck, he could go anywhere and be better off than in America, according to him.
 
And you've only had even theoretical equality before the law as a country for what less than 50 years?

Some folks act and speak as though everything became equal: income, unemployment, education, poverty, job skills, qualify of housing, as SOON as the Civil Rights Act of 1968 was passed.
 
The problems can't be "fixed" without the facts:

White people make up 69% of arrests for crime in the US, with African-Americans making up 28.1%. The problem is that a black man is more likely to go to prison than his white counterpart.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf

White Americans abuse drugs at a higher rate than African Americans too.

So right off the bat, Americans need to deal with facts and not assumptions.

Careful there or your facts will lead you to incorrect assumptions.

According to your link whites make up 69% of arrests, but they also make up 63% of the population. Blacks make up 28.1% of arrests but are only 13.2% of the population.
 
Looks like a good choice for your one friend would be Nigeria. Heck, he could go anywhere and be better off than in America, according to him.
There was nothing in the quote I used about blaming "White Society" for keeping him down. I quoted him saying that America feels like a different place for people whose ancestors "were brought here against their will in chains. To be sold as property." There was no mention of him blaming his current situation on white society. That's you projecting; you can't see that?


Don't forget that it wasn't too long ago that we rounded up Asians and stuck them in concentration camps. Blacks aren't the only group that have had it rough. I can't think of a more persecuted group of people than Jews.
As long as even intelligent people react to comments about the terrible conditions blacks have faced in America by becoming defensive and make comparisons with other groups, we have a problem. One has nothing to do with the other, does it?
 
Don't forget that it wasn't too long ago that we rounded up Asians and stuck them in concentration camps. Blacks aren't the only group that have had it rough. I can't think of a more persecuted group of people than Jews.

This is almost too naive to waste time on.

First, a single generation of Japanese internment camps is not even a close equivalent to a couple hundred years of enslavement.

Millions of Russians died in WWII. The Cambodian Killing Fields rivals the Holocaust. The Palestinians are currently much more oppressed than the Jews.
 
Another thought re comparison between USA and Africa-

I'm sure there are places in Africa that have black laborers, black managers, black business owners. Do you think the laborers blame White Society for keeping them down?
In South Africa and Zimbabwe, I imagine they can make a case.
 
There was nothing in the quote I used about blaming "White Society" for keeping him down. I quoted him saying that America feels like a different place for people whose ancestors "were brought here against their will in chains. To be sold as property." There was no mention of him blaming his current situation on white society. That's you projecting; you can't see that?



As long as even intelligent people react to comments about the terrible conditions blacks have faced in America by becoming defensive and make comparisons with other groups, we have a problem. One has nothing to do with the other, does it?

If we blame everything on external factors, we have a problem. Jews have a history of enslavement, persecution, and genocide. Why do they have a successful country? Why isn't their poverty rate high? Why has their family unit remained intact? Why is every black nation a failure?


Black elites and activists across the world have adopted a culture of verbal tyranny in which they shut down any effort to reason or criticize us or black-majority nations by labeling such attempts as “racism” or “hate speech.” Thus, one can be certain that any suggestions that our race may indeed need to do something to remedy our situation will not be aired — not by the terrified people of other races. And anyone within our race who makes such a suggestion will be deemed weak and pandering or a sellout, as U.S. President Barack Obama has been repeatedly called. Thus, no one will talk about the painful fact that most African and Caribbean nations have either failed or are about to collapse.Thus, no one will talk about the painful fact that most African and Caribbean nations have either failed or are about to collapse.

Early African-American intellectuals and cultural elites saw that the future of their race could not be advanced by endless protests or marches of “equality” or “justice.” It could only be done through the restoration of the trampled dignity of the black man. Great men like Marcus Garvey, W. E. B. Du Bois, and Malcolm X all knew that a people is only respected when it has a nation worthy of respect. A man who lives in a shack cannot expect to be treated with respect at a palace. They knew that for us to reclaim power we must first reclaim dignity and that this comes through the construction of a solid black state with a demonstrable level of development and prosperity — and which can stand as a powerful advocate for the global black.

Today, no such state exists.
"

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/08/09...nations-africa-diginty-racism-pan-africanism/

Can you imagine what the reaction would be if a white politician said the above? It's political suicide to talk about this stuff.
 
There was nothing in the quote I used about blaming "White Society" for keeping him down. I quoted him saying that America feels like a different place for people whose ancestors "were brought here against their will in chains. To be sold as property." There was no mention of him blaming his current situation on white society. That's you projecting; you can't see that?



As long as even intelligent people react to comments about the terrible conditions blacks have faced in America by becoming defensive and make comparisons with other groups, we have a problem. One has nothing to do with the other, does it?

I thought you had two black friends, one blaming slavery of 150 years ago, and one a recent immigrant. So, you have one freind who does know which part of africa he is from- Nigeria. Which makes your posts some sort of non-sequitor.

I don't think the recent immigrant's opinion is any more powerful than my own. Or yours.

But I'll take it up anyhow, I suppose several generations of slavery with selective breeding may have selected out some ambition. And/or the environment of being raised by slaves and their descendants might be continuing some social problems, like not being "uppity". But I don't see how welfare programs, set asides, etc, can cure a racial inferiority complex. People like the limo company owner managed to rise above it though.

And like I said about black laborers in Africa, and I'll add white laborers in America, not everybody has what it takes to rise up the ladder. Hey, there are smart white guys, dumb lazy white guys,- and dumb blacks too.

Why do some blacks manage to rise? That may be where the answer lies.

Anybody care to look up black education stats? Graphs over time, high school graduation, college entrants, college degrees? I'm thinking maybe things ARE getting better. That limo business owner did have a Bachelor's. 20 years ago maybe. Couldn't find a job, so started his own business.
 
What about "white collar crime" - or the trashing of the entire global banking system?

That aside is the crime rate for the poor black population different to that for the poor white/hispanic/asian etc. population?

Send the police to black neighborhoods and they'll find drug crimes. Send the same police to white neighborhoods and they'll find people to do drugs with. In short, the crimes are being committed in both places, but are only looked for in one.

And there is this.
 
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The problem is the overall assumption of a monolithic thing we call black culture. Don't get me wrong. It sort of is what we have in a way. However, when you look at white culture (although all of it isn't race-specific), you've got rednecks, nerds, bikers, punks, headbangers, atheist skeptics, stoners, hippies, intellectuals, goths, etc. as archetypal identities for people to choose from. To white people, these things tend to be more important to their identity than being white, although "whiteness" is more important in some of these groups than it is in others (skinheads vs hippies, etc.). Some of it is corrosive, but some of it isn't. The important part to realize is that there are cultural distinctions that aren't quite as publically acknowledged or even extant when considering black people.

On the black side, at least in the communal perception of it, we've mostly got ghetto gangster culture and virtually nothing else. That isn't all they are, of course, but most black people do tend to listen to approximately the same music, and the perception of cultural cohesion goes way beyond music. I shouldn't even have to mention the fact that aspects of the culture itself glorify the criminal. However, that is not entirely unique.

These perceptions affect both whites and blacks and everything in between. It has probably changed somewhat by now in the younger generations. I'm basing this on my youth more than anything, and I'm 44. I'm actually clueless about popular culture at this point, partially due to living in an isolated area and having no children. I heard something about a new Grand Theft Auto coming out recently, though... and that sort of thing is part of the perception, not because it exists, but rather because it is mostly exclusive. There are virtually no other archetypal identities out there to counteract this, or at the very least, they aren't as well established or as strongly associated with black people. Bloods vs Crips doesn't count, obviously. The only thing which comes close would involve sports.

The end result is that it causes both continued racism among whites and increased criminal activity among blacks -- or perhaps it merely reflects and stabilizes an already existing situation. Either way, the result isn't ideal.
 
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Blacks make up the majority of arrests for murder and robbery in the USA.

Also, for most other crime arrests, blacks represent almost 3x their percentage of population in the USA.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/table-43

What about "white collar crime" - or the trashing of the entire global banking system?

That aside is the crime rate for the poor black population different to that for the poor white/hispanic/asian etc. population?

Blacks have just always tended to be criminals, that was even true back in the good old days:
picture.php


Yep, seems like most of those arrested for breaking the law have always been blacks.
 
As a buddy of mine (who happened to be black) once said to me:



The history is so terrible I don't know how or whether we ever get past it. I think in historical terms we're still too close to it to even think rationally about America's racial history. Slavery endured in the U.S for ninety years. Generations of African Americans were born slaves, died slaves, saw their children enslaved. And their children's children. They knew nothing else, had no reason to expect things would change.

White Americans need to try and imagine what life would be like when you're existing as someone else's property. They own you. Horrible. :(



I know of a country full of white people who could say the same thing your friend said. But we just call ourselves Australians and get on with it. Slave/Transported convict. Tell me there's a difference 200 years later.
 

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