How the Shanksville Crater Was Made

[chris lz]

Did the crater cover up the entire jet after 710 crashed?

From what I have read, just the fuselage.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Good question. What is their turn radius on their terminal dive?

Interesting evasion. What do you think "at speed" means?

Let me clarify the question you continue to avoid:

What is the radius of the tightest turn a JASSM can make, at its attack velocity?

What is the radius of the tightest turn a JASSM can make, at maximum velocity in level flight, under ideal conditions?

 

[yankee451]

From what I have read, just the fuselage.

From what I have read, the fuselage struck muddy ground near a river at 600 MPH, blowing a big crater at the bottom of which they found the accordioned remains of the fuselage.

The differences are many, not the least of which is a 757 is a bigger, heavier plane than the electra, the ground was hard and dry as opposed to being muddy ground near a river, and just as in every other high speed jet crash example, flight 710 had parts of plane and humans visible all around the crater. Every other high speed crash except flight 93 that is.

This is why I am so impatient with these comparisons! They're not valid in the least. Flight 93 allegedly burrowed into the hard, rocky ground that had been settling for more than a decade, WINGS AND ALL. They say they had to dig fifteen feet just to find it because the ground sealed behind it like a tomb! Who writes this stuff.

 

[yankee451]

Interesting evasion. What do you think "at speed" means?

Let me clarify the question you continue to avoid:

What is the radius of the tightest turn a JASSM can make, at its attack velocity?

What is the radius of the tightest turn a JASSM can make, at maximum velocity in level flight, under ideal conditions?

What do you think "terminal dive" means?

 

[chris lz]

This is why I am so impatient with these comparisons!

Did you read my question? I asked you in theoretical terms and to leave out mixing in the real world cases and stick to physics theory.

You have not answered: does crash physics definitively rule out y and z?

Forget about comparisons. I'm not asking for a comparison.

Thanks

 

[Slowvehicle]

What do you think "terminal dive" means?

Again, interesting evasion.

Might you consider answering the question?

Choose the best possible, most favorable, conditions: level flight, maximum velocity, perfect mechanical function, whatever. Under those conditions, what is the radius of the tightest turn a JASSM can make?

Or, to put it simply, what is the radius of the tightest turn a JASSM can make at speed?

 

[EvilBiker]

This is why I am so impatient with these comparisons! They're not valid in the least. Flight 93 allegedly burrowed into the hard, rocky ground that had been settling for more than a decade, WINGS AND ALL. They say they had to dig fifteen feet just to find it because the ground sealed behind it like a tomb! Who writes this stuff.

Reality. Bites, doesn't it?

 

[fess]

And yet there's the crater clear as day proclaiming 'a missile came through the trees and made this gash'.

I'm sure they weren't too concerned with the placement. They just needed a gash in a field. The media and academia would do the rest.

No, there is no evidence that a missile came through the trees and made this gash, and you know it. Especially a missile fires at a 10deg AOA.

You still haven’t who “they” are.

 

[fess]

Good question. What is their turn radius on their terminal dive?

A 10deg AOA is a dive?

 

[yankee451]

A 10deg AOA is a dive?

Have you found the manual yet?

 

[fess]

This is why I am so impatient with these comparisons! They're not valid in the least. Flight 93 allegedly burrowed into the hard, rocky ground that had been settling for more than a decade, WINGS AND ALL. They say they had to dig fifteen feet just to find it because the ground sealed behind it like a tomb! Who writes this stuff.

One more time, the entire aircraft did not disappear into the ground. You have constantly stated this and have been corrected many times.

 

[yankee451]

No, there is no evidence that a missile came through the trees and made this gash, and you know it. Especially a missile fires at a 10deg AOA.

You still haven’t who “they” are.

I'm still working on the "what did it". If it turns out it was cruise missiles, i'm pretty sure al Qaeda doesn't have the capability.

 

[fess]

Have you found the manual yet?

I don’t need a manual to understand what a 10deg AOA is, do you?

 

[fess]

I'm still working on the "what did it". If it turns out it was cruise missiles, i'm pretty sure al Qaeda doesn't have the capability.

Here we go with the “IF” again. But you are right; al Qaeda didn’t have the capability. But neither did any active Air Force squadron at the time.

 

[yankee451]

One more time, the entire aircraft did not disappear into the ground. You have constantly stated this and have been corrected many times.

Well it was no where to be seen around the crater, and if it didn't disappear into the ground why did they claim they had to dig 15 feet just to find the wreckage, and that the deeper they went the bigger the pieces were?

Newspaper reports claimed the jet disappeared and burrowed into the ground which closed behind it like a tomb - very emotional language, propaganda like almost wouldn't you say.

While in NYC we have the police talking about molten lava and the fire department talking about rivers of molten steel, in Shanksville the media reported the jet disappeared into the ground, and later they reported the filght recorders were found at 15 and 25 feet deep. So when they claim all these things, and you can't see any debris outside of the crater, where else would the plane be?

http://www.whale.to/b/Shanksville1.jpg



Everyone's just standing around by broken and shattered trees. Just a hole in the ground.

http://www.howardsview.com/TWA800/ShanksvilleCrashsite.jpg

Edited by LashL: 

Changed hotlinks to regular links. Please see Rule 5.

 

[yankee451]

Again, interesting evasion.

Might you consider answering the question?

Choose the best possible, most favorable, conditions: level flight, maximum velocity, perfect mechanical function, whatever. Under those conditions, what is the radius of the tightest turn a JASSM can make?

Or, to put it simply, what is the radius of the tightest turn a JASSM can make at speed?

The question is irrelevant. The missile has extensive waypoint capabilities. It would have no problem maneuvering into position.

 

[Reactor drone]

The question is irrelevant. The missile has extensive waypoint capabilities. It would have no problem maneuvering into position.

You drew a flight path that showed the missile overflying a witness. From that point it would have to execute a 50g + turn to hit at the desired angle. What's the maximum turn rate of a JASSM?

 

[yankee451]

You drew a flight path that showed the missile overflying a witness. From that point it would have to execute a 50g + turn to hit at the desired angle. What's the maximum turn rate of a JASSM?

I don't know, probably not great. The witness could well have seen the missile that blew off the tops of the trees.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

And yet there's the crater clear as day proclaiming 'a missile came through the trees and made this gash'.

Although inconveniently there are no cropped-off trees proclaiming 'yeah, what he said'.

Still, at least there's the crater, and we can be sure the crater looks like a missile crater since it closely resembles all those other low-angle missile craters you showed us. Oh. No, wait.

 

[Animal]

The question is irrelevant. The missile has extensive waypoint capabilities. It would have no problem maneuvering into position.

In the woo filled fantasy world you live in, maybe. Everywhere else, nope.