How powerful is human immune system?

[TraneWreck]

As I said professor, you believe disease to be genetic, you also believe the body attacks itself and creates harmful cells. This is how you distract the masses from the truth.

[...]

That's right, cancer is non existent in wildlife and it is non existent in livestock. This is because the good doctors do not effect wildlife and the medicine sees to it that livestock does not have cancer.

So, if you know how to do this, can we inject you with HIV or Ebola to see how your immune system defeats those pathogens?

 

[Steven Howard]

Help me out please. What is western Medicine?

For example: "Take Two".

Okay, yeah, I always link to that comic when somebody uses the phrase "Western medicine." I still think it's funny.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

As I said professor, you believe disease to be genetic, you also believe the body attacks itself and creates harmful cells. This is how you distract the masses from the truth.

There are no genetic diseases only pathogens passed from one generation to the next because all pathogens are contagious.

That's right the body does not attack itself. Only a doctor would believe that something as amazing as the body is that counter productive.

Medicine is the cause of all disease, especially western medicine. You will notice that outside of western medicine there is no such thing as cancer.

That's right, cancer is non existent in wildlife and it is non existent in livestock. This is because the good doctors do not effect wildlife and the medicine sees to it that livestock does not have cancer.

That... wow, that is one of the most uninformed pieces of nonsense I have read in a VERY long time.

Yes, the body CAN attack itself, both through cancer and through auto immune diseases and YES there are genetic malfunctions that can be passed on and be lethal (sickle cell anemia is but one of the many examples of this).
Cancer does in fact occur within animals.
The reason its such a killer nowadays however is that people live a lot longer and cancer statisically appears at a later age. People getting cancer at 60-70 is not a big issue when the average life expetancy is <45 as it has been for the majority of human history.
Also we know more about diseases now, so when someone sickens we no longer claim its bad vapours and bloodlet them or pray to the spirits to make it go away. Just because it wasn't diagnosed in the past doesn't mean such diseases did not exist.

 

[paximperium]

Tell that to the many members of my family with autoimmune disorders....

It's due to lack of brain power. It's all their fault.

 

[Modified]

Theres a term for the immune system seemingly and miraculously healing from what appeared to be a fatal disease but hose instances are few and far between. Some very few people seem to be immune to aids and such but i have never heard of someone infected with say herpes getting completely over the disease.

I think I've read that most people who get herpes only have one or two outbreaks. The virus is still "hiding" in the nerves, but unable to gain a foothold outside.

 

[Cainkane1]

Define disease? Is spinal scholiosis a disease? It isn't caused by germs. Could your brain rejuvenation tecnique reverse curvature of the spine? Could you cure allergic asthma?

 

[JCL]

It is very easy to prove MEDICINE outside of trauma is all propaganda and lies. That was not the reason for the discussion but that is where the good doctors want to take it and I will do my best to expose medicine <snipped strawman argument>.

As someone who has a living mother due to "propaganda and lies", I do hate to have her mislead, even if it extends her life.

So, please expose/prove medicine as all propagand and lies, so I can tell her to stop chemotherapy.

Before I do this, I will need the proof.

 

[Cainkane1]

Tell that to the many members of my family with autoimmune disorders....

Yes like asthma and such. The immune system is actually the source of a few diseases.

 

[paximperium]

I think I've read that most people who get herpes only have one or two outbreaks. The virus is still "hiding" in the nerves, but unable to gain a foothold outside.

To a degree. Herpes Simplex(oral cold sores or genital herpes---yes, once upon a time there was 2 subtypes of the virus that caused one but not the other. Now there is no difference...I wonder why?) and Herpes Zoster(chicken pox and shingles) cause an acute infection and then are basically suppressed in specific nerves by the immune system. During times where the immune system is weakened, stressed or for no reason at all, these viruses reactivate, reinfect and are suppressed again.

 

[Steven Howard]

For the record, the body can cure diseases said to be incurable if the body uses it's immune system and response as intended.

Intended by whom?

 

[PixyMisa]

As I said professor, you believe disease to be genetic, you also believe the body attacks itself and creates harmful cells. This is how you distract the masses from the truth.

There are no genetic diseases only pathogens passed from one generation to the next because all pathogens are contagious.

Then how, exactly, is there a genetic test for (say) Huntington's disease (which ran in my mother's family, but hasn't shown up in the latest generation, thankfully).

That's right the body does not attack itself.

There's a whole class of autoimmune diseases that want to have a word with you.

Only a doctor would believe that something as amazing as the body is that counter productive.

Well, doctors and biologists, who are, after all, the people who study this sort of thing.

Medicine is the cause of all disease, especially western medicine. You will notice that outside of western medicine there is no such thing as cancer.

Cancer has been known and documented since (at least) the times of ancient Greece. It's also widespread among animals.

That's right, cancer is non existent in wildlife and it is non existent in livestock.

Categorically untrue.

 

[Ixion]

To a degree. Herpes Simplex(oral cold sores or genital herpes---yes, once upon a time there was 2 subtypes of the virus that caused one but not the other. Now there is no difference...I wonder why?) and Herpes Zoster(chicken pox and shingles) cause an acute infection and then are basically suppressed in specific nerves by the immune system. During times where the immune system is weakened, stressed or for no reason at all, these viruses reactivate, reinfect and are suppressed again.

Paximperium, I think you might be misinformed. There are still two viruses that cause Simplex (type 1 and 2). They can both cause sores at the site of infection. Commonly, simplex 1 causes cold sores and simplex 2 causes genital lesions, but you can have genital lesions caused by simplex 1 and cold sores by simplex 2.

Latency of the virus is in the nervous system, but it seems to be a larger role in the virus itself than the immune system. Herpes viruses have very large genomes (for a virus) and a number of proteins manufactured by the virus help induce and maintain latency. Many labs are investigating the interplay of the virus and the immune system, so there is still much to learn about it.

Modified, some people have outbreaks quite often, not just 1-2 times. Acyclovir is a good drug that works well on herpes outbreaks.

 

[ShareCures]

If that were the case, the studies wouldn't fail. But they reproducibly do.



Define western medicine? If you mean the current mainstream medical practiced used all over the world, then yes, there is truth there. After all, diseases are studied, medicines researched and the effect of these medications and practices is shown to work when you compare the difference in mortality rates both over time and between treated and untreated disease


Some alternative medicine has some effectiveness (a lot of current medication is based on old school herbalism, with the difference that modern medicine only contains the actual active ingredients and not the poisons/inactive ingredients present in most herbal remedies). Also, the effect of placebo should not be underestimated for trivial/non-lethal conditions


Yes, the immune system IS designed to kill disease causing pathogens. That's what its for. However the system is not perfect and can be overwhelmed/fooled and even blocked by certain pathogens. That interplay is a normal part of evolution. Genetic diseases are a different case as in most cases the immune system does not function against host cells, even if they are killing you.


No



The immune system functions without any direct interaction with the brain, all components are synthesized in differnt organs (mainly bone marrow). Any consious decisions about health and well being have to do with you deciding to do/not do certain things. Jumping off a cliff=bad for health. Eating poison = bad for health. etc.

Luk,

I think you will find this topic most interested if you have thick skin. I think you will find your beliefs to be incorrect.

Yes, there is much more to all of this, but the best way to learn about that is to follow courses in immunology and medicine.[/QUOTE]

No the best way to learn about this and cures is to disregard all courses that do not take you straight to cures.

You do have the ability to direct your immune response, it just isn't made public for obvious reasons and because people are so ineffective when it comes to directing their immune response it appears we have no control over it. This is technology and education has disregarded immunity in favor of medicine.

People will soon ask for proof but what proof is there? The only proof is when some one has a disease personally that is cured. Everything thing else is hearsay and not proof at all.

Medicine has no proof that a diseases are incurable, heck they don't have proof that herpes is a virus. They only have hearsay passed from one person to another. There is no science in medicine only opinion and theories.

A diagnoses does not mean you have a condition, it just means the doctor has an opinion. Even a positive test for hepatitis says it does not mean you have hepatitis.

If you want to be involved with cures you must involve your immune system and disregard both alternative and western medicine.

The simple fact that people believe they have no control over their immune response is the reason people have no control over the immune response. They could have full control over it, and that is how the body cures diseases said to be incurable.

 

[IXP]

Though it has been ignored completely the body has the ability to eliminate all pathogens and because disease is not genetic pathogens are the only cause of disease. If you eliminate pathogens before the cause irreversible damage there is no need for the doc above.

The only thing between a disease and a cure is the same thing that gets between any one and a task they do or do not do. The only thing preventing someone from curing a disease said to be incurable is the lack of applying oneself appropriately.

You have the natural design to cure any pathogen and because diseases thought to be genetic are indeed diseases brought on by pathogens passed from one generation to the next often in the womb these diseases can be cured to. One must use what they have been designed with and that means using SOMETHING YOU HAVE NOT USED IN THE PAST.

Sorry, I asked for a proof, not a hypothesis. Please try again.

Maybe even a demonstration would help. Let's see you infect yourself with HIV then eliminate the pathogens without using drugs or other medical treatments.

IXP

 

[ShareCures]

Then how, exactly, is there a genetic test for (say) Huntington's disease (which ran in my mother's family, but hasn't shown up in the latest generation, thankfully).


There's a whole class of autoimmune diseases that want to have a word with you.


Well, doctors and biologists, who are, after all, the people who study this sort of thing.


Cancer has been known and documented since (at least) the times of ancient Greece. It's also widespread among animals.


Categorically untrue.

Your medical test are fraudulent that is why and how. They know they are detecting pathogens or antibodies or OTHER INDICATIONS.

You see, when I say there are cures for diseases medicine says are incurable it makes everything medicine claims fraudulent and inaccurate so you cannot use medicine propaganda to disprove the body's ability to heal and cure diseases said to be incurable.

Because the body can cure any disease said to be incurable it make all medicine except trauma medicine unreliable and false.

You can't use medicine to dispute my claims unless medicine is capable of curing the disease the body can cure. Otherwise medicine is too inferior to be relied upon.

 

[TraneWreck]

Your medical test are fraudulent that is why and how. They know they are detecting pathogens or antibodies or OTHER INDICATIONS.

[...]

You can't use medicine to dispute my claims unless medicine is capable of curing the disease the body can cure. Otherwise medicine is too inferior to be relied upon.

Alright, that one gave it away. This person is just trying to get a rise out of everyone.

 

[ShareCures]

Sorry, I asked for a proof, not a hypothesis. Please try again.

Maybe even a demonstration would help. Let's see you infect yourself with HIV then eliminate the pathogens without using drugs or other medical treatments.

IXP

Let's see you take the initiative to do this test for proof. You get me an HIV virus and I will let you inject me with it.

First problem is, you have no idea what an HIV virus is, what it looks like, how to catch one or anyone who has every really seen one! For all practical purpose there is no such thing as an HIV virus just hearsay but I welcome you to prove me wrong.

You catch one in your little net, blood sample or whatever you need to infect me and we will do your little test. You will find they are more elusive than you have been taught!

 

[ShareCures]

Alright, that one gave it away. This person is just trying to get a rise out of everyone.

TraneWreck, did you think I came here to hear myself discuss?

No I am here to discuss cures for incurable diseases and I can prove they exist. Giving me the benefit of the doubt, as such it obviously proves that medicine is either inferior or corrupt or both.

So why would I seek approval from something as inferior as medicine.

Medicine cannot touch the capacity of the human immune response. Medicine has no place in regards to cures. Cures simple kill the golden goose.

 

[ShareCures]

Paximperium, I think you might be misinformed. There are still two viruses that cause Simplex (type 1 and 2). They can both cause sores at the site of infection. Commonly, simplex 1 causes cold sores and simplex 2 causes genital lesions, but you can have genital lesions caused by simplex 1 and cold sores by simplex 2.

Latency of the virus is in the nervous system, but it seems to be a larger role in the virus itself than the immune system. Herpes viruses have very large genomes (for a virus) and a number of proteins manufactured by the virus help induce and maintain latency. Many labs are investigating the interplay of the virus and the immune system, so there is still much to learn about it.

Modified, some people have outbreaks quite often, not just 1-2 times. Acyclovir is a good drug that works well on herpes outbreaks.

Actually since proof is so important there is no proof that there is even such a thing as a herpes virus, just everyone taking it all in on faith. They test of antibodies and indication of what is said to be a virus but there is no way of detecting an actual virus through medical testing. Doctors have never seen the virus so you can't ask them for help. Lab tech only see one color of dye or another without seeing any actual virus.

For all we know OBs thought to be herpes could be a fungus and nothing to do with any virus. Unfortunately for the argumentative types there is no way to prove herpes is a virus or a fungus.

 

[PixyMisa]

Your medical test are fraudulent that is why and how. They know they are detecting pathogens or antibodies or OTHER INDICATIONS.

Categorically untrue. It is a genetic marker, and in the case of Huntington's disease, it means you will develop the disease later in life.

You see, when I say there are cures for diseases medicine says are incurable it makes everything medicine claims fraudulent and inaccurate so you cannot use medicine propaganda to disprove the body's ability to heal and cure diseases said to be incurable.

Except that you have provided no evidence whatsoever for your claims.

Because the body can cure any disease said to be incurable it make all medicine except trauma medicine unreliable and false.

No.

First, the body cannot do this.

Second, medicine is provably effective in tackling disease.

Are you crippled by polio, or scarred by smallpox? No? Vaccines.

Have you died from a simple infected cut, or from a cough that just wouldn't go away and eventually consumed your body? No? Antibiotics.

Were you killed by a cancer that would have been a death sentence in your grandfather's - possibly even your father's - day? No? Chemotherapy and radiotherapy.

Did your mother die in childbirth? No? Simple antiseptic procedures.

You can't use medicine to dispute my claims unless medicine is capable of curing the disease the body can cure. Otherwise medicine is too inferior to be relied upon.

Medicine is demonstrably, provably effective. That what makes it medicine, as opposed to the unadulturated nonsense that you are offering.