How powerful is human immune system?

[fls]

Oh. I didn't see the poll when I first opened this thread.

Your question is a tautology. If your body can cure an "incurable" disease, then by definition it is not an incurable disease.

Did you mean something more like - "can the body cure itself of disease which usually benefits from medical treatment?"

Linda

 

[ShareCures]

OK then, how would the immune system go about curing the underlying cause of a congenital heart deformity, or sickle cell disease?

Please, I really want you to educate me.

ARGUMENTATIVE! You are trying to pigeon hole me into being responsible for your failure. I said you can prevent the two. You allowed for them, you figure out how to repair the damage that should have been prevented.

Now if you want to know how to prevent them that is easy. Learn to eliminate all pathogens prior to failures. Make certain you use your immune system and response to eliminate fungus, bacteria, viruses, parasites and all other evil little organisms your body is designed to eliminate if only you would take advantage of it.

 

[paximperium]

If you eliminate pathogens before the cause irreversible damage there is no need for the doc above.

Yup. The skin does a great job at that.

The only thing between a disease and a cure is the same thing that gets between any one and a task they do or do not do. The only thing preventing someone from curing a disease said to be incurable is the lack of applying oneself appropriately.

Nothing beats the "blame the patient" argument. "You have brain cancer because you didn't apply yourself!!!"

You have the natural design to cure any pathogen and because diseases thought to be genetic are indeed diseases brought on by pathogens passed from one generation to the next often in the womb these diseases can be cured to. One must use what they have been designed with and that means using SOMETHING YOU HAVE NOT USED IN THE PAST.

There are levels of stupid here that even I won't bother to refute. He/she actually believes that genetic diseases are caused by pathogens...wow.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

You have the natural design to cure any pathogen and because diseases thought to be genetic are indeed diseases brought on by pathogens passed from one generation to the next often in the womb these diseases can be cured to.

 

[ShareCures]

Oh. I didn't see the poll when I first opened this thread.

Your question is a tautology. If your body can cure an "incurable" disease, then by definition it is not an incurable disease.

Did you mean something more like - "can the body cure itself of disease which usually benefits from medical treatment?"

Linda

No Linda I should have said do you think the body can cure diseases inappropriately labeled "incurable"?

Can I remove the poll and make another?

 

[fls]

Well to nitpick, aortic dissection actually involves more than the shearing forces that tear the aorta. There appears to be a significant inflammatory response that lead to the original injury that created the channel. Whether it is contributory or a result of the dissection is question at present....well except for Marfan's Disease, that' purely genetic and mechanical.

I should have been more specific - "aortic dissection due to mechanical causes" (I had pictured traumatic injury when you brought it up).

Linda

 

[paximperium]

ARGUMENTATIVE! You are trying to pigeon hole me into being responsible for your failure. I said you can prevent the two. You allowed for them, you figure out how to repair the damage that should have been prevented.

There really isn't much else to say to this. It's the newborn's fault...or the mom, whichever is more convenient.

 

[Ixion]

I am an immunologist. In fact, I will be defending my Ph.D. in a couple of weeks. I will admit at this point I have not had time to review the thread, but I will state that your poll makes no sense. Incurable is, by definition, not curable, so you are logically asking people if they believe in the impossible.
I will comment on more of your specific questions at a later time, when I have had some time to review the thread more, but I already see some good dialogue taking place.

 

[Sledge]

I'm waiting for the sales pitch:

"And I can tell you how to access your brain's NATURAL healing ability for a small donation to my Expose the Lies of Western Medicine Foundation..."

I'm hoping it'll at least be something new. Coating the walls of your house in a magic paint made from turnips, setting fire to a fur coat by the light of a half moon, something like that.

 

[fls]

No Linda I should have said do you think the body can cure diseases inappropriately labeled "incurable"?

Isn't that merely a matter of education? If somebody is cured of a disease, then once people are aware of this, it won't be called incurable.

Can I remove the poll and make another?

I think that takes a moderator?

Linda

 

[ShareCures]

As I said professor, you believe disease to be genetic, you also believe the body attacks itself and creates harmful cells. This is how you distract the masses from the truth.

There are no genetic diseases only pathogens passed from one generation to the next because all pathogens are contagious.

That's right the body does not attack itself. Only a doctor would believe that something as amazing as the body is that counter productive.

Medicine is the cause of all disease, especially western medicine. You will notice that outside of western medicine there is no such thing as cancer.

That's right, cancer is non existent in wildlife and it is non existent in livestock. This is because the good doctors do not effect wildlife and the medicine sees to it that livestock does not have cancer.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Okie dokie - which pathogen did my healthy sister pass on to her baby daughter which caused her congenital heart deformity?

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

I'm new here and because this seems like it might be a place open to discussing the body's natural ability to eliminate disease causing pathogens without any help from modern technology, gimmicks or gadgets I thought I would kick it around some here.

It is my opinion Keven Trudeau has paved the way for a whole new alternative world of gimmicks and scams. I believe he is the worst thing to happen to truth and understanding of the truth about health and healing.

Certainly everyone here is aware that most if not all alternative medicine continually fails double and triple blind studies, but when used by a trained alternative specialist the methods tend to get results, some better than others.

If that were the case, the studies wouldn't fail. But they reproducibly do.

Anyone willing to discuss how the body is designed to eliminate all pathogens and remain disease free without the use of modern technology or Kevin Trudeau?

Possible discussion points.

Is there any truth to Western Medicine. (Relevant because they claim there are no cures for diseases the body is designed to cure.)

Define western medicine? If you mean the current mainstream medical practiced used all over the world, then yes, there is truth there. After all, diseases are studied, medicines researched and the effect of these medications and practices is shown to work when you compare the difference in mortality rates both over time and between treated and untreated disease

Is there any truth to Alternative Medicine? (Or is it all placebo effect?)

Some alternative medicine has some effectiveness (a lot of current medication is based on old school herbalism, with the difference that modern medicine only contains the actual active ingredients and not the poisons/inactive ingredients present in most herbal remedies). Also, the effect of placebo should not be underestimated for trivial/non-lethal conditions

Does the body have an immune response designed to kill disease causing pathogens and if so what is getting in the way?

Yes, the immune system IS designed to kill disease causing pathogens. That's what its for. However the system is not perfect and can be overwhelmed/fooled and even blocked by certain pathogens. That interplay is a normal part of evolution. Genetic diseases are a different case as in most cases the immune system does not function against host cells, even if they are killing you.

Does a person have the ability to direct their immune response the same as they direct their conscious activities?

No

How much of the 90 or 95% of the brain not used is responsible for our health and well being? (If we are designed to heal, clearly we are not using the program.)

The immune system functions without any direct interaction with the brain, all components are synthesized in differnt organs (mainly bone marrow). Any consious decisions about health and well being have to do with you deciding to do/not do certain things. Jumping off a cliff=bad for health. Eating poison = bad for health. etc.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, there is much more to all of this, but the best way to learn about that is to follow courses in immunology and medicine.

 

[Cainkane1]

I'm new here and because this seems like it might be a place open to discussing the body's natural ability to eliminate disease causing pathogens without any help from modern technology, gimmicks or gadgets I thought I would kick it around some here.

Some diseases yes and some diseases no. If it weren't for medicine I'd probably be dead of asthma by now. You are going to treat aids or whatever without medicine I can tell you that.

It is my opinion Keven Trudeau has paved the way for a whole new alternative world of gimmicks and scams. I believe he is the worst thing to happen to truth and understanding of the truth about health and healing.

Never heard of him.

Certainly everyone here is aware that most if not all alternative medicine continually fails double and triple blind studies, but when used by a trained alternative specialist the methods tend to get results, some better than others.

I think so called alternative medicine fails in all circumstances.

Anyone willing to discuss how the body is designed to eliminate all pathogens and remain disease free without the use of modern technology or Kevin Trudeau?

The immune system does cure disease but there are many diseases such as aids that overpowers even a good immune system. In fact during the Spanish flu epidemic those with good immune systems died sooner.














Possible discussion points.

Is there any truth to Western Medicine. (Relevant because they claim there are no cures for diseases the body is designed to cure.)

Western medicine doesn't say this. I've had the flu, chicken pox, measels etc with no medical care and got well. If I had herpes or aids then I'd be out of luck.


















Is there any truth to Alternative Medicine? (Or is it all placebo effect?)

Placebo all the way.

Does the body have an immune response designed to kill disease causing pathogens and if so what is getting in the way?

The immune system remarkable though it is often fails to cure diseases that go medicall untreated.


















Does a person have the ability to direct their immune response the same as they direct their conscious activities?

I doubt it.

How much of the 90 or 95% of the brain not used is responsible for our health and well being? (If we are designed to heal, clearly we are not using the program.)

I've heard that 100% of the brain is used at all times. This conversation is going woo woo in a hurry

That's a good start.

Nope this converstaion is destined to go nowhere fast.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

That's right the body does not attack itself.

Tell that to the many members of my family with autoimmune disorders....

 

[ShareCures]

It is very easy to prove MEDICINE outside of trauma is all propaganda and lies. That was not the reason for the discussion but that is where the good doctors want to take it and I will do my best to expose medicine because so many seem to thing that cures and medicine are linked. They are not. Cures are not medicine.

 

[Sledge]

This oughta be good.

 

[Ixion]

As I said professor, you believe disease to be genetic, you also believe the body attacks itself and creates harmful cells. This is how you distract the masses from the truth.

There are no genetic diseases only pathogens passed from one generation to the next because all pathogens are contagious.

That's right the body does not attack itself. Only a doctor would believe that something as amazing as the body is that counter productive.

Medicine is the cause of all disease, especially western medicine. You will notice that outside of western medicine there is no such thing as cancer.

That's right, cancer is non existent in wildlife and it is non existent in livestock. This is because the good doctors do not effect wildlife and the medicine sees to it that livestock does not have cancer.

What a load of bollocks. You sound like a reincarnation of Hulda Clark. Are you going to start selling us "syncrometers" and "zappers"?

 

[fls]

ARGUMENTATIVE! You are trying to pigeon hole me into being responsible for your failure. I said you can prevent the two. You allowed for them, you figure out how to repair the damage that should have been prevented.

Now if you want to know how to prevent them that is easy. Learn to eliminate all pathogens prior to failures. Make certain you use your immune system and response to eliminate fungus, bacteria, viruses, parasites and all other evil little organisms your body is designed to eliminate if only you would take advantage of it.

As I said previously, our immune system already does all this for us (especially if you want to include natural barriers, like skin, as part of the immune system). It is a relatively small number which slip through. Also, a lot of the activity of medicine is focussed on the prevention you have mentioned.

However, whether or not a condition is curable is different from whether or not a condition is preventable. Rabies is preventable through vaccination, but it is (almost always) not curable once it is present. I think you mixed together preventable and curable.

Linda

 

[paximperium]

There are no genetic diseases only pathogens passed from one generation to the next because all pathogens are contagious.

Sickle Cell disease and Down's Syndrome is contagious!!!

That's right the body does not attack itself. Only a doctor would believe that something as amazing as the body is that counter productive.

Man. All those patient's with Systemic Lupus Erythematosis are liars!!!

Medicine is the cause of all disease, especially western medicine. You will notice that outside of western medicine there is no such thing as cancer.

Wha!!!?

That's right, cancer is non existent in wildlife and it is non existent in livestock. This is because the good doctors do not effect wildlife and the medicine sees to it that livestock does not have cancer.

Again...Wha!!!?