How much would Joe the Plumber's Taxes Change?

[Dr Adequate]

Well I must say I'm shocked. Ok not really. But of course, it is rather telling that the next day of the debate there is an ongoing effort to destroy Joe and his credibility. How insanely typical. And (from people and) on a forum where one of the key rules of debate is to attack the message, and not the messanger. But whenever anyone pops up that could even remotely be seen as a plus to McCain or Republicans, the smear machine goes right into high gear before any facts are even really known about the person. Palin, now Joe the Plumber. Very sad people.

I think you are just upset because Obama inadvertantly betrayed that the core belief of most Democrats is a socialistic world view. Someone in one of these threads said it wasn't the smartest thing that Obama ever said. I wonder, is that because it betrays the real underlying beliefs? Or because you disagree with the mentality of "spreading the wealth"? If the former, then you are admitting you wish he hadn't admitted something that shows your true colors, and that you wish to hide from them. If the latter, then why do you support Democrats when they are clearly driven by socialistic ideals?

One of the most telling points of the debate was when Obama started talking about how his friend Warren Buffet can afford to pay more taxes, and McCain rightly interjected "we are talking about Joe the Plumber". The Democrats want desperately to paint the people who are to be taxed as being outrageously rich like Buffet. Joe is a great example for people to see how it's not really about taxing the super rich. How it will hurt people in middle America. People who want to start or buy a business, etc. How quickly Obama wanted to turn it right back to some uber-rich person like Buffet. The intellectual dishonesty is continuously outrageous.

Whiplash is outraged again.

Things that don't outrage Whiplash include small pieces of twine, antique hot-water bottles, and odd numbers not ending in 5 or 7, or 9. But the list is shrinking daily.

In this case he seems to be most outraged that the discourse should have turned to the actual man who McCain was talking about, rather than an imagined hallucinatory plumber who earns a quarter of a million dollars a year. Oh, and some of the usual hysterical crap about socialism.

So far as I can follow his disgruntled ravings, his problem is that the hallucinatory made-up plumber is a "great example" of the standard lies spewed out by wingnuts, whereas reality, with its well-known liberal bias, is not nearly so appealing to self-deluding crackpots.

 

[pgwenthold]

Things I would like to see: (I won't see them, but I would like to.)

I would like to see the Obama camp do about a 20 minute commercial on Joe the Plumber. It starts with Joe the Plumber as he is today, and talks about his taxes, and how he gets a tax cut from Obama. It assumes that in the future, Joe has a great career. It starts by a promotion to supervisor or something, and under Obama's plan, he gets a tax cut. Eventually, he saves up money and starts a plumbing shop of his own. The first few years, it's tough. He's got to pay employees, and he doesn't even make as much as they do, after expenses, but since he isn't making much, he gets a tax cut. Then, his business grows. He adds a few vans, and hires more people, and pays himself a little bit bigger salary, and gets a tax cut. Then, his business really grows. He takes out a quarter page yellow pages ad, and raises his own salary. He's making so much that he doesn't get a tax cut under Obama's plan. Finally, he takes out a full page ad, hires even more people, buys a Cadillac (Joe the Plumber only buys American cars), and invests some money in the stock market where he makes good investments and rakes in the cash. He makes almost $300,000 in one year, and his taxes go up.

This is actually a pretty interesting thought. Yeah, Obama's plan MIGHT have a negative effect on the personal income of people currently making more than $250K, but then again, he can claim that his plan gives those who don't, like Joe, a better chance to get there in the first place.

 

[Puppycow]

The NY Times ran the numbers on the theoretical Joe (just taking Joe at his word). Theoretical Joe's taxes would, surprise, surprise, go down under Obama's plan. They would go down by more under McCain's plan, but either way he would get a tax cut. He would save between $902 and $1604 under Obama's plan depending on how much he contributed to an IRA, and would save between $1503 and $2204 under McCain's plan. Obama would cut theoretical Joe's taxes, not raise them.

Actual Joe would probably do even better relative to the McCain plan, because I seriously doubt that this company is really making $280,000 in profit.

 

[mhaze]

It appears that a lot of posters do not know much about small business so (respectfully) here are some facts.

1. Most plumbing businesses would be sole proprietorships, file a 1040 schedule C. Net profit is "owner's income", there is no "salary".

2. A plumbing company needs 1 Master Plumber license, all working in the trade are working under his supervision. Joe would need either to have a Master license on board (likely the retiring owner's license would work) or he could go take the tests.

 

[noch1Narr]

Read all about Joe Wurzelbacher and his real story:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/story?id=6047360&page=1

 

[eeyore1954]

It appears that a lot of posters do not know much about small business so (respectfully) here are some facts.

1. Most plumbing businesses would be sole proprietorships, file a 1040 schedule C. Net profit is "owner's income", there is no "salary".

2. A plumbing company needs 1 Master Plumber license, all working in the trade are working under his supervision. Joe would need either to have a Master license on board (likely the retiring owner's license would work) or he could go take the tests.

A plumbing business big enough to be making a profit of 250,000 might also likely be an s corp instead of schedule C. People with S Corps do try to fool around with their salaries in order to lower the FICA and medicare taxes. I don't know anything about what plumbing licenses are needed. I would suspect diffferent states have different requirements.