How much would Joe the Plumber's Taxes Change?

[Upchurch]

If Joe works 60 a week and takes NO vacations he would make $181K and little more for overtime. But we all know that that isn't really realistic!

Don't confuse Joe for the business Joe says he's trying to buy, which may have several plumbers involved.

I don't actually know the details about this business, but people in this thread are making very bad assumptions about how it all works.

 

[Malerin]

Joe "the plumber" has no license:

"COLUMBUS, Ohio - Joe the plumber, American's most famous tradesman, said he doesn't have a plumbing license."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27207215/

Was this guy a plant from the Republicans so Mccain could trot him out during the debate?

 

[Ziggurat]

According to my back-of-the-envelope calculation (I don't know anthing about special deductions or exemptions) Obama's tax plan would raise the marginal tax rate on income over 250,000 from 36% to 39%

What about social security taxes? I believe Obama wants to change that too.

 

[DavidJames]

Joe "the plumber" has no license:

"COLUMBUS, Ohio - Joe the plumber, American's most famous tradesman, said he doesn't have a plumbing license."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27207215/

Was this guy a plant from the Republicans so Mccain could trot him out during the debate?

He appears to be a registered Republican, but way to early to jump to conclusions.

***.."Linda Howe, executive director of the Lucas County Board of Elections, said a Samuel Joseph Worzelbacher, whose address and age match Joe the Plumber’s, registered in Lucas County on Sept. 10, 1992. He voted in his first primary on March 4, 2008, registering as a Republican."..***


http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Joes_registration.html

 

[tomwaits]

So we have "Joe the plumber", "Joe six-pack", and last night I heard of "Joe America". I think it's time that we stamped out the oncoming Joe menace. Joe Mama might become a problem.

 

[Ziggurat]

Joe "the plumber" has no license:

"COLUMBUS, Ohio - Joe the plumber, American's most famous tradesman, said he doesn't have a plumbing license."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27207215/

Was this guy a plant from the Republicans so Mccain could trot him out during the debate?

Did you actually read the story? First off, he doesn't currently need a license. And second, given what he says in that story, I think it's pretty damned obvious he's not a plant.

 

[Magyar]

Don't confuse Joe for the business Joe says he's trying to buy, which may have several plumbers involved.

I don't actually know the details about this business, but people in this thread are making very bad assumptions about how it all works.

No I am not, I am just pointing out that in order to generate THAT much money you have to do A LOT of work and this is ONLY in Salary! Since you said you own/or part owner of a business, you KNOW that in order to realize a $250K profit -even gross - you have to generate a heck of a lot more money than that in revenues. Most people, even those who are employed by small mom and pop business, really have NO IDEA of all the back end expenses both in time and money involved in running a business and all the money you spend before you see a dime in profit.

It's easier to point out the numbers Joe was talking about if you convert it into a plain old hourly, that's all.

 

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Here's a NYTimes article about it:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/us/politics/16plumber.html?em

Doesn't Mr. Wurzelbacher feel demeaned and angry to have his entire life reduced to "Joe the Plumber"? I'm sure he enjoys the temporary celebrity and the publicity but if it were me, I wouldn't want to hear either of the two candidates talking about me that way.

 

[Magyar]

Did you actually read the story? First off, he doesn't currently need a license.

OHHM THAT IS NOT TRUEhttp://www.contractors-license.org/oh/Ohio.html

He may not YET have a full plumbers licence, but then he MUST be registered as an apprentice AND work UNDER the direct supervision of a Licenced person.

It also means that owning his own plumbing company is a PIPE dream since you MUST be licensed to be able to pull a permit for any work!

Since I don't work in the that trade I don't know the number of hour required to work and classes, but someone else mentioned IL needing 8 years.

I believe that the current in my state for EC is 8000 hours under the direct supervision of a licenced electrician BEFORE you can take the test. and of course they have to sign off on it.

 

[Oliver]

Not a plant?

Joe the Plumber? More like Joe the Keating Family Operative

 

[plumjam]

So we have "Joe the plumber", "Joe six-pack", and last night I heard of "Joe America". I think it's time that we stamped out the oncoming Joe menace. Joe Mama might become a problem.

It's worse than that. A bit of research and I find out American society also contains Joe Schmoe, Joe Blow, Just Your Everyday Joe, Average Joe, Joe 90.. and that could be just the tip of the iceberg.
Joe Iceberg, I assume.
In the UK we have Joe Bloggs. But he increasingly holidays (vacations) in Florida, perhaps Port St Joe, Florida http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_St._Joe so watch out.
Where are they all coming from? Joepiter?

 

[Kopji]

Joe is not his company, even as an owner he would draw a salary less than $250k.

The 'spread the wealth' comment by Obama was probably not among the smartest things he's ever said, but I don't see how it reflects a bold new direction for either Democrats or the kind of Republicans we've had for years.

I don't understand the use of Joe. Even Joe seems a little confused about it.

*****

Living in Arizona, I do have two anecdotes about McCain's promise to personally do something for Joe. A friend at work was having a lot of difficulty adopting a child that was not a US citizen. After a lot of bureaucratic runaround, McCain's office was contacted and became involved in getting the adoption approved and processed. My 'work friend' was very grateful and promised to vote for McCain if he ever ran for President. (I find this reason btw, to be better than most and I respect him for it.)

The second anecdote is about a family relative who came here as an illegal immigrant from Mexico, joined a hospital and worked her way into nursing. She is very talented as a nurse, and there was no future for her in the anti-women, depressed area of Mexico she is from. After a few years in Arizona she married my brother-in-law, had two American citizen kids, but was still not a legal citizen and was always afraid of being deported. (I have some cool stories of my granny-age mom in law smuggling her back and forth across the border).

The family struggled for years trying to legalize her status, and finally contacted McCain's office - who was helpful in getting her citizenship processed.

My point on those two stories is that I saw that kind of personal commitment to Joe from McCain during the debate and it probably means much at a personal level. McCain's word is good and he would help the guy out.

Less clear is how that 'hands on' ad-hoc problem solving style will scale to national problems. We need to tackle problems and then adjust policy and law to solve them. Unless it becomes law or policy, can good intent benefit all of us?

McCain's office needed to become involved in these cases because, well, government is a bit screwy sometimes. But why not fix those things that were so quickly solved by his office?

Joe's issues might be important to larger governmental problem solving or they might not.
I give it a -shrug-.

 

[rdaneel]

Where are they all coming from? Joepiter?

We must stop them, Quick, call in GiJoe!!!

 

[Ziggurat]

OHHM THAT IS NOT TRUE

Calm down.

He may not YET have a full plumbers licence, but then he MUST be registered as an apprentice AND work UNDER the direct supervision of a Licenced person.

So? The story doesn't indicate that that isn't the case.

It also means that owning his own plumbing company is a PIPE dream since you MUST be licensed to be able to pull a permit for any work!

Pipe dream? No. All it means is he needs to get a license before he starts his own business. Nothing in the story indicates that he can't or won't do this, or that he's not close to being able to.

 

[DavidJames]

Of course this is from the liberal, socialist U.S hating CNN, but...

McCain's claim only works by using an overly broad definition of what counts as a "small business" - and even with that definition, fewer than 2% of business owners would be hit by Obama's proposed rate increase. For those who are affected, the increase would be levied only on a part of their earnings, not all of them.

 

[Magyar]

Calm down.

So? The story doesn't indicate that that isn't the case.
Pipe dream? No. All it means is he needs to get a license before he starts his own business. Nothing in the story indicates that he can't or won't do this, or that he's not close to being able to.

Sorry, I didn't mean to seem so excited, but it just doesn't add up. I mean OK, you are right he could be getting his license any day now and he could start his business tomorrow.

But then are you saying that as a brand new business, in this economy with the level of competition that exists in any town in trades like plumming and electrical this guy is going to gross $250K+ in his first year?

My hat off, if he can pull THAT off.

 

[dudalb]

Joe "the plumber" has no license:

"COLUMBUS, Ohio - Joe the plumber, American's most famous tradesman, said he doesn't have a plumbing license."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27207215/

Was this guy a plant from the Republicans so Mccain could trot him out during the debate?

Like the Democrats are above such stunts.

 

[Malerin]

Like the Democrats are above such stunts.

First of all, I never said the Democrats hands are clean. "Plumber" Joe is clearly not an Obama booster (calling his tax-plan "socialism"), Mccain brought him up in the debate and referred to him 20+times (Obama referred to him 4). That certainly raised a set of mental eyebrows with me.

Second of all, can you really say, with a straight face, that Obama has been pulling more "stunts" than Mccain?

 

[dirtywick]

I don't see what having a plumbling license has to do with owning a plumbing business. I'd imagine he'd probably, you know, hire licensed plumbers to do the work while he ran the business. My uncle ran a shipping business for a while, didn't have a CDL. I don't even think he owned a truck.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

If I was the Obama campaign I would counter Joe the plutocrat plumber with somebody in the middle class. Sally the nurse or Jim the carpenter making around $60 K. For every Joe the plumber there are probably 10 or 20 people making less than $100 K.

Of course, what isn't so easy to understand is that most of those 10 or 20 people work for a company that falls under the “Joe the Plumber” tax bracket. As their employers' tax burdens increase, there's less money to pay their wages, so they will be making less, and have a higher risk of winding up unemployed.

Further, most of the goods and services that we buy come from companies that would fall in this higher tax bracket as well, so these companies need to charge higher prices for their goods and services to make up the loss.

Many people will be glad to see “The Rich” being hit with heavier taxes, to support all sorts of handouts for the lower classes, but those in the lower classes will be puzzled that in spite of the benefits they think they are getting, that they have a harder time making enough money to meet their own needs.

Socialism is one of the most insidious scams that mankind has ever devised. Those who are most victimized by it are the ones who think they are the beneficiaries, and as they find themselves being dragged down further and further, they just demand more of the same.