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How much time do we really have?

mikeb768 said:
If you can convince the museum to update their inscription to say "Hemen (the Falcon god) was the overseer of stonemasons", despite how utterly ridiculous it sounds, maybe then I will start to give your assertion further thought.

In the mean time maybe you can provide us with a separate set of hieroglyphs which archeologists believe to depict Hemen the falcon God in order to support your assertion. For the record Weszinski never wrote Hemen, he actually wrote "hmn-h". And I will continue to disagree with you, while you attempt to conflate the stories of Moses and the Book of Esther, based on the fact that 998 details differ but 2 are the same.

Until then the most credible source on this subject seems to be following posts:
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Of course, I never said anything of the kind. Furthermore, I have repeatedly told you that. Also, others have told you that. So here it goes ONE MORE TIME: The name of the overseer of stonemasons on the doorstop was Hemen-hotep, meaning "Hemen is pleased [with him]." I have never said that the doorstop belonged to the god Hemen, and you know it. If you make this dishonest assertion one more time, I will assume you are incorrigibly dishonest and that your witness on behalf of Islam is worthless. I this the way you win converts?
 
TimCallahan said:
Of course, I never said anything of the kind. Furthermore, I have repeatedly told you that. Also, others have told you that. So here it goes ONE MORE TIME: The name of the overseer of stonemasons on the doorstop was Hemen-hotep, meaning "Hemen is pleased [with him]." I have never said that the doorstop belonged to the god Hemen, and you know it. If you make this dishonest assertion one more time, I will assume you are incorrigibly dishonest and that your witness on behalf of Islam is worthless. I this the way you win converts?
Click to expand...

Once again Hemen is taken from hmn, Wreszinski's translation does not say Hemen, but hmn-h. I have explained this and even shown this multiple times. The vowels were not present.

So here it goes ONE MORE TIME: Egyptian Hieroglyphs didn't indicate vowels adequately and sometimes "e" (and in a some cases "a") is put in if necessary as a default vowel. As in other languages, words in Egyptian were made up of sounds, partly of consonants and partly of vowels. But, the writing of hieroglyphs constantly ignored and omitted vowels. Ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphic Directory
 
mikeb768 said:
Once again Hemen is taken from hmn, Wreszinski's translation does not say Hemen, but hmn-h. I have explained this and even shown this multiple times. The vowels were not present.

So here it goes ONE MORE TIME: Egyptian Hieroglyphs didn't indicate vowels adequately and sometimes "e" (and in a some cases "a") is put in if necessary as a default vowel. As in other languages, words in Egyptian were made up of sounds, partly of consonants and partly of vowels. But, the writing of hieroglyphs constantly ignored and omitted vowels. Ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphic Directory
Click to expand...

Now you are saying that it doesn't say Haman either. I don't see how that helps your argument.
 
TimCallahan said:
Of course, I never said anything of the kind. Furthermore, I have repeatedly told you that. Also, others have told you that. So here it goes ONE MORE TIME: The name of the overseer of stonemasons on the doorstop was Hemen-hotep, meaning "Hemen is pleased [with him]." I have never said that the doorstop belonged to the god Hemen, and you know it. If you make this dishonest assertion one more time, I will assume you are incorrigibly dishonest and that your witness on behalf of Islam is worthless. I this the way you win converts?
Click to expand...

Mikeb768: Do the honest thing: Respond to the post quoted above and admit that you understand that I never did assert that the doorstop in the Vienna museum belonged to the falcon god Hemen; but that I specifically asserted it belonged to Hemen-hotep. Do that or stand condemned as a liar.
 
TimCallahan said:
Mikeb768: Do the honest thing: Respond to the post quoted above and admit that you understand that I never did assert that the doorstop in the Vienna museum belonged to the falcon god Hemen; but that I specifically asserted it belonged to Hemen-hotep. Do that or stand condemned as a liar.
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Well that is good, but many others here seem to disagree. Also you continue to hold on to Hemen, when we know the "e" were not present, so there for HMN.
 
mikeb768 said:
Well that is good, but many others here seem to disagree. Also you continue to hold on to Hemen, when we know the "e" were not present, so there for HMN.
Click to expand...

So, are you still asserting that I was claiming the doorstop belonged to a falcon god or are you admitting that what I said was that it belonged to a man called Hemen-hotep?

Furthermore, if HMN can mean Haman, it can just as easily mean Hemen. When it's coupled with the suffix hotep, Hemen, being the name of an Egyptian god fits.

Now, are you willing to acknowledge that you were wrong in asserting that the falcon god Hemen wasn't worshipped until the 25 dynasty; in light of all the evidence I gave in post # 724 that Hemen is mentioned in the Pyramid texts, in the 13th dynasty, the First Intermediate Period and in the 18th. dynasty?
 
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mikeb768 said:
If you can convince the museum to update their inscription to say "Hemen (the Falcon god) was the overseer of stonemasons", despite how utterly ridiculous it sounds, maybe then I will start to give your assertion further thought. ...
Click to expand...

Of course it sounds ridiculous, mikeb.
No one here thinks we're talking about "Hemen (the Falcon god) was the overseer of stonemasons"

We're talking about "Hemenhotep was the overseer of stonemasons".
 
pakeha said:
Of course it sounds ridiculous, mikeb.
No one here thinks we're talking about "Hemen (the Falcon god) was the overseer of stonemasons"

We're talking about "Hemenhotep was the overseer of stonemasons".
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mikeb768, why do you keep misrepresenting this? It has been pointed out to you lots of times. The Pharaoh Amenhotep was not the God Amun; he was the bearer of a name which included that God's name. This including the name of a God in a person's name (it's called "theophory") was very common in the ancient Near East. For dozens of examples from the Jewish scriptures, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophory_in_the_Bible.
 
pakeha said:
Of course it sounds ridiculous, mikeb.
No one here thinks we're talking about "Hemen (the Falcon god) was the overseer of stonemasons"

We're talking about "Hemenhotep was the overseer of stonemasons".
Click to expand...

Yes it seems that we are in agreement then.

Hemen or Haman ((a person) translated by Wreszinski from hmn-h, with vowels later being inserted) -hetep = "to be satisfied, at peace", was the overseer of stonemasons.
 
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TimCallahan said:
So, are you still asserting that I was claiming the doorstop belonged to a falcon god or are you admitting that what I said was that it belonged to a man called Hemen-hotep?

Furthermore, if HMN can mean Haman, it can just as easily mean Hemen. When it's coupled with the suffix hotep, Hemen, being the name of an Egyptian god fits.

Now, are you willing to acknowledge that you were wrong in asserting that the falcon god Hemen wasn't worshipped until the 25 dynasty; in light of all the evidence I gave in post # 724 that Hemen is mentioned in the Pyramid texts, in the 13th dynasty, the First Intermediate Period and in the 18th. dynasty?
Click to expand...

Have you managed to find a set of hieroglyphs, or a piece of work other than the Hemen (falcon god) Statuette which would indicate a period other than the 25th dynasty? The site list the "Statuette of Taharqa and the Falcon God" as being from the Third Intermediate Period, 25th Dynasty, reign of Taharqa (690-664 BC).

I would be hesitant to accept an earlier period without some type of proof. Although all of this is rather irrelevant anyway, since the Hemen = falcon god theory seems to have been dropped.
 
mikeb768 said:
Have you managed to find a set of hieroglyphs, or a piece of work other than the Hemen (falcon god) Statuette which would indicate a period other than the 25th dynasty? The site list the "Statuette of Taharqa and the Falcon God" as being from the Third Intermediate Period, 25th Dynasty, reign of Taharqa (690-664 BC).

I would be hesitant to accept an earlier period without some type of proof. Although all of this is rather irrelevant anyway, since the Hemen = falcon god theory seems to have been dropped.
Click to expand...

You have to kidding! Either that, or you are a consummate liar. I have already given you that evidence in spades. Here ONCE AGAIN is what I posted in Post #724. Please note the hilited sections:

Hemen is mentioned in a limited number of inscriptions and texts. Some of these include:
Ankhtifi, a monarch dated to the first intermediate period, is shown inspecting a fleet, killing a hippopotamus in Hefat during festivities and offering the hippopotamus to Hemen.[7] A round topped stela from the 13th dynasty invokes Ptah-Sokari-Osiris and Horus-Hemen lord of Asphynis. The stela was formerly in the V. Golenishchev collection, but is now in Moscow, in the State Pushkin Museum of Fine Arts.[8]
The chief sculptor Userhat who lived at the end of the 18th dyansty / beginning 19th dynasty mentions "causing cult statues to rest in their shrine". Hemen of Hefat is one of the gods listed among those Userhat was responsible for.[9]
Statue from the time of Amenhotep III; Now in Avignon, Musée Calvet.[10][11

ETA: if yoiu aren't convinced by the Wikipedia site, try this one. Here's what the site has to say about Hemen (bolding added):

HEMEN -
The falcon god of Mo'Allah, HEMEN was a very ancient divinity mentioned in the first texts of the pyramids. He was a mythological war god who fought against the forces of primordial chaos.

BTW, the Pyramid Texts date from the Old Kingdom (from the site):

The oldest of the texts have been dated to between ca. 2400-2300 BC.

If you didn't read all this the first time, read it now. And, no, Hemen as a falcon god has NOT been dropped. Nor was he ever proposed as the head of stone masons. That was Hemen-hotep. The name of the falcon god Hemen is part of his name - as I and others HAVE REPEATEDLY TOLD YOU.

I will be leaving on a trip on Thursday morning and will be gone until the middle of April. I will be offline during that period. It's my prediction that you will still be making the same stupid, dishonest arguments then that you're making now. This is typical troll behavior, intended to deliberately irritate. It's plain now that you're getting off on upsetting other people by this childish behavior. Here's a word to the others who have wasted time talking to mikeb768: STOP FEEDING THE TROLL.
 
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mikeb768 said:
I would be hesitant to accept an earlier period without some type of proof. Although all of this is rather irrelevant anyway, since the Hemen = falcon god theory seems to have been dropped.
Click to expand...
No. You're still misrepresenting things. Hemen was a falcon god. A person called, most probably, Hemenhotep (named after the god) was the overseer of a quarry.

I'll say it again:it's like Amunhotep. Amun, a god. Amunhotep, a King named after that God. Lots of ancient Egyptians had names like that. Rameses is another example, named after the sun god Ra. And Thothmes, named after a god called Thoth. Have you got this now?
 
TimCallahan said:
...Hemen is mentioned in a limited number of inscriptions and texts. Some of these include:
Ankhtifi, a monarch dated to the first intermediate period, is shown inspecting a fleet, killing a hippopotamus in Hefat during festivities and offering the hippopotamus to Hemen.[7] A round topped stela from the 13th dynasty invokes Ptah-Sokari-Osiris and Horus-Hemen lord of Asphynis. The stela was formerly in the V. Golenishchev collection, but is now in Moscow, in the State Pushkin Museum of Fine Arts.[8]
The chief sculptor Userhat who lived at the end of the 18th dyansty / beginning 19th dynasty mentions "causing cult statues to rest in their shrine". Hemen of Hefat is one of the gods listed among those Userhat was responsible for.[9]
Statue from the time of Amenhotep III; Now in Avignon, Musée Calvet.[10][11

ETA: if yoiu aren't convinced by the Wikipedia site, try this one. Here's what the site has to say about Hemen (bolding added):

HEMEN -
The falcon god of Mo'Allah, HEMEN was a very ancient divinity mentioned in the first texts of the pyramids. He was a mythological war god who fought against the forces of primordial chaos.

BTW, the Pyramid Texts date from the Old Kingdom (from the site):

The oldest of the texts have been dated to between ca. 2400-2300 BC.

If you didn't read all this the first time, read it now. And, no, Hemen as a falcon god has NOT been dropped. Nor was he ever proposed as the head of stone masons. That was Hemen-hotep. The name of the falcon god Hemen is part of his name - as I and others HAVE REPEATEDLY TOLD YOU.

I will be leaving on a trip on Thursday morning and will be gone until the middle of April. ...
Click to expand...

Calm seas and safe havens, TC.

Thanks for such a complete summing up of what we know about Hemen. There really isn't much room for thinking there's a connection between the Egyptian and the Quranic names.



mikeb768 said:
Yes it seems that we are in agreement then.

Hemen or Haman ((a person) translated by Wreszinski from hmn-h, with vowels later being inserted) -hetep = "to be satisfied, at peace", was the overseer of stonemasons.
Click to expand...

Actually, mikeb, I think you'll find Hemen isn't the name, but rather Hemenhotep.
 
devnull said:
With everything the koran gets wrong, it's no wonder one would grasp at a vague coincidence.
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Such as Q 18:86, telling of the travels of Duh'l-Qarnayn: . . .then, when he came to the setting of the sun, he found it setting into a muddy spring.

Now, had the Qur'an said that the sun didn't rise or set, but only seemed to because of the turning of the world, that would have been astounding.
 
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