HOW MANY Jews died...

[billydkid]

Look...

Jewish/anti-Israel direction? Of course, the test of anti-Israel criticism is whether there is any balancing criticism directed towards Arabs or Palestinians. For example, blaming the Israeli government for provoking suicide bombings is a bit of a giveaway.

Look, and let me make this real clear, I could give a crap how you "write me off" one way or the other. I never in anyway condoned or endorsed terrorism or suicide bombing or attacks on Israel or anything remotely like it. I didn't "single out" Israel as you say. Someone said Israel was a democracy and the US should support it for that reason. Now I believe the US should support Israel, but I hardly think it being a democracy is much of a justification in as much as many of the people who live in Israel are not of Jewish decent (am I wrong?) and because these people are not of Jewish decent they are not entitled to citizenship and can not vote.

Now, as I suggest, I am perfectly willing to concede I may be wrong about this, but that is my understanding . You want to keep calling me names, I am going to start calling you names. I never remotely said anything anti-semitic. I never said anything endorsing terrorism against Israel. I never defended attacks on Israel. I do hold to my opinions about the nature of ethnic exclusivity. And as several others with better jewish credentials than myself have said - being Jewish is not identical with being Israeli. And even if I were anti-Israeli (which I am not) that would not make me anti-semitic.

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by varwoche
You're taking it to an extreme. Billykid posted nothing of this nature -- not even remotely.

Believing Billykids post was anti-Semetic is a different topic from if a Jew should react differently to an anti-Semetic statement or not.

I believe it's expected that the subject of any kind of bigotry will react differently to that bigotry.

Originally posted by varwoche
True, it's human nature. And I don't see it as a fault, unless and until it reaches the point of clouding one's judgement.

The issue of clouded judgment is the point of discussion. The bigot has clouded judgment, that's why he's a bigot. The subject of bigotry may also have clouded judgment and see bigotry where there is none.

But unless you share that ethnicity, I'd be careful about dismissing the feeling. If nothing else, you're less experienced in the issue.

Hypothetical question: Do you believe it’s possible for someone to say or do something racist without being a racist?

 

[billydkid]

I remember

I remember a short time back when someone in here called me a racist when I argued that people should be judged as individuals and not given special consideration because of their ethnic background and I quoted Martin Luther King about judging people by the content of their character. Somehow, arguing for a color blind society can now be construed as being racist and, apparently, being remotely critical of Israel makes you anti-semitic. Must cause a little cognitive disonance for the name callers when it is actually Jewish folks who are critical of Israel. There is noone in here who can legitimately claim that I have ever said anything remotely either racist or anti-semitic, but some people have their agendas and anyone who doesn't subscribe to those agendas gets the name calling treatment.

 

[a_unique_person]

Of course, the test of anti-Israel criticism is whether there is any balancing criticism directed towards Arabs or Palestinians. For example, blaming the Israeli government for provoking suicide bombings is a bit of a giveaway.

Lucky, perhaps if you read this. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49599&highlight=manne

Rober Manne is middle of the road politically, also Jewish (for what it is worth), and not any sort of Israeli apologist or darling of the anti-semites.

His view of the the issue is summed up in the headline "Israel and the nightmare of occupation". The view that a violent response was expected from the Palestinians is also his. There is a false dichotomy, I believe, that you subscribe to that in your opinion. You can believe that Israel is to blame for what is being brought upon it, and not be anti-semitic. A military occupation is an act of violence in itself. A violent response is a logical expectation. Terrorism is being used, but that is also a tactic that Israel has resorted to. It's a war out there, and I would like to see it end, but, as Skeptics latest posts indicate, the extremists in Israel, and their supporters such as Daniel Pipes in the US, are not interested in peace. They are ready to continue with a war.

 

[varwoche]

Believing Billykids post was anti-Semetic is a different topic from if a Jew should react differently to an anti-Semetic statement or not.

I don't disagree. However, I was specifically discussing billykid's post and reaction to same.

But unless you share that ethnicity, I'd be careful about dismissing the feeling. If nothing else, you're less experienced in the issue.

"Dismissing the feeling" overstates my position. Actually I do share that ethnicity -- a fact I don't consider highly relevant to this discussion.

Hypothetical question: Do you believe it’s possible for someone to say or do something racist without being a racist?

There are many definitions for what constitutes racism. That said, imo a non-racist can make racist statements. I see little reason to excuse good imitations however.