How Loony are the Loons?

[A W Smith]

So where was this program put into the plane. A program that can enact a special code that ignores manual controls?

Exactly which system onboard the planes were reprogrammed to ignore manual commands?

Please can you explain exactly what you are suggesting here?

Are you saying that embedded code was pre-programmed into the planes computer control systems that would enable external commands to be issued to the plane that would over ride manual commands?

If so who was making the manual commands?

Was there anybody onboard these planes, in the cockpit to make manual commands?

It is obvious he didnt folow the link that pomeroo provided or he would have known. He isjust spewing forth nonsence.

 

[RemoveBush]

"beachnut - Funny how people in the government let Watergate out of the bag; and they never got beat up, killed, lost jobs.

No the Watergate guys who blew the story; They used facts! Facts backed up by facts, backed up by facts, verified and backed up with facts!

Facts; government people telling newspaper people factual stories and pointed to the evidence!

Nixon resigned cause there were facts proving he was covering it up.

Now loons need facts. Facts will make all loons experts."

Yeah and back then people had morals! Today, they cricify amputies and other people they don't agree with in ways that are shameful with distortions and lies.

Hardly any comparison!

 

[Skibum]

It is obvious he didnt folow the link that pomeroo provided or he would have known. He isjust spewing forth nonsence.

I don't think he is really here for a true discussion, he's here to lecture and educate us.

 

[A W Smith]

"beachnut - Funny how people in the government let Watergate out of the bag; and they never got beat up, killed, lost jobs.

No the Watergate guys who blew the story; They used facts! Facts backed up by facts, backed up by facts, verified and backed up with facts!

Facts; government people telling newspaper people factual stories and pointed to the evidence!

Nixon resigned cause there were facts proving he was covering it up.

Now loons need facts. Facts will make all loons experts."

Yeah and back then people had morals! Today, they cricify amputies and other people they don't agree with in ways that are shameful with distortions and lies.

Hardly any comparison!

you talking about killtown? (my bolding)

 

[pomeroo]

Perhaps you might try actually READING Apathoid's paper?

 

[ConspiRaider]

Yes this guy knows how to MAINTAIN the aircraft, but does he know how to write EMBEDDED code? I have written embedded code for many types of devices: 186, Zilog, 8052, Motorola.

You and him are overlooking that a program CAN be put into the plane very easily! It would then wait for a SIGNAL to enact a special code that was designed to IGNORE all manual controls. Again, you people are thinking in a ONE DEMENSIONAL view rather than a multi-dementional view.

(emphasize mine, above)

Bro!!! Dude!!! Wow!!! I didn't know you were in my business!!! You are multi-faceted, holy friggin' Toledo!!! I'm just a lousy software engineer, thinking up applications and pounding out code and that's it. But YOU! Sufferin' Succotash! You do it ALL. Engineer w/Degree. Crash Test Dummy Tester. Holder of 1st CLASS FCC EQUIVENT LICENENCE. And now a software coder (hacker) who spits out embedded code?!? Lemme take a pull of this cognac 'ere I answer...

Okay I'm back. OF COURSE! Embedded Code is code that the pilots or FAA or NTSB or NORAD could not SEE nor DETECT! What the hell was that thing Indira Singh was going on about?!? Oh Yeah - PTECH!!! They Pteched the friggin' planes!!!

I hate to admit that Apathoid got Pteched and his paper is now meaningless but hey! I calls 'em likes I sees 'ems!

See now EVERYTHING makes sense! Even Bush in the classroom! He wasn't reading My Pet Goat - he was scanning Embedded Code! No wonder why the Secret Service stayed clear of him!!!

C'mere, cognac, come to papa...

 

[beachnut]

"pomeroo - When RB trotted out the fantasist ca--sorry--bullbleep about modifying Boeing 757 and 767 aircraft to allow for remote controlled flight, I started bouncing in my chair in gleeful expectation of Apathoid tearing him a new one. Curiously, there was silence. Someone should link to

http://911myths.com/Remote_Takeover.pdf

simply because the whole stupid, pernicious house of cards collapses into its own deformed footprints when it is established that real jihadists flew real planes into buildings. All of the myriad nonsense conjured up by the conspiracy liars melts away when there are jihadists hijacking planes and crashing them into buildings."

Yes this guy knows how to MAINTAIN the aircraft, but does he know how to write EMBEDDED code? I have written embedded code for many types of devices: 186, Zilog, 8052, Motorola.

You and him are overlooking that a program CAN be put into the plane very easily! It would then wait for a SIGNAL to enact a special code that was designed to IGNORE all manual controls. Again, you people are thinking in a ONE DEMENSIONAL view rather than a multi-dementional view.

Does this guy say that the system cannot be reprogrammed????? NO! He states that if the pilots did anything that the system would give up control. However, if the SYSTEM was reprogrammed to ignore these attempts then the pilots would not be able to gain control.

Now start your ranthing and raving rather than thinking!

No the system cannot be programmed to do what you say it can. I doubt the 186 and the 1st grade level programming can help your poor attempt at trying to make up fiction.

There are countless ways the pilot can control the plane you know not of.

 

[TjW]

You know, it's a funny world. I write embedded code too. Curiously enough, I too have written code for 186s, Zilog Z80s, Z8s, 8052s , Motorola 6805s, even the ancient RCA 1802.
Yet I'm still not experienced enough to write code that will work when I pull the circuit breakers that supply power to the processor.

 

[RemoveBush]

"Kiwiwriter - Your websites are conspiracy theory nutters. Jeff Rense's web page is heavy on support for neo-Nazis like Ernst Zundel (sorry, I shouldn't call him a neo-Nazi, he says he's just a Nazi), and UFO wacko-dom. The Tackling Tough Topics website is an anti-Catholic "end times" web page. The leadoff page on Liberty is at least connected to the crew, but I'm going to have to look at it closer...it seems to have a lot of penknives to grind, as well."

Thanks for providing support for what I have already said.... It does not matter where I provide information from..... It will be labeled a "conspiracy", "loony", or some other attack name! Can you, or can you not dispute the information?

I am not going to FOX to provide you with information!

"Kiwiwriter - As for the comments about the Israeli agents, and bringing in the Liberty, now I have to start asking questions about the motivations behind your theories, and who you think is really behind it all. The long versions would be that I'd like to know what you think about the activities of Jews and Jewish organizations and their impact on history and modern society and the future of the world. I'd also like to know your thoughts on Holocaust denial and revisionism, and the ideas expressed by Ernst Zundel, Germar Rudolf, David Irving, and the Institute for Historical Review."

I have NO MOTIVATIONS for my theories.... I look at the EVIDENCE and conclude from that, for the 1000 th time.

As far as the JEW..... What do I care about them??? They are PEOPLE, I don't consider JEW, CHRISTIAN, BLACK, PURPLE, or what ever their background is to be relavent! Though for our nations sake, I want us to stop being a puppet for Isreal. Alies do not attack each other and for the government to just forget this and do nothing is shameful to all those American lives that were lost.

There was a holocaust, what else do you want?

"Kiwiwriter - The short version: What do you think about Jews...and do you think that Hitler gave them what they deserve, and did he get a bad rap for it?"

NO ONE deserves to die for nothing.

"Kiwiwriter - In any case, there have been investigations of the Liberty fiasco, the Israelis paid compensation, their air force and Navy made this mess, what is the point? And for that matter, what exactly would be the point of the US Navy blasting open its own intelligence-gathering ship?"

It is EVIDENCE! There are other articles, which I am unable to find at the moment, that have stated that the commander of the aircraft carrier stated that LBJ personally stated that he wanted that ship at the bottom of the ocean. This is a "FALSE FLAG" operation if the president is going to allow this to happen. How am I suppose to know why the US would do that? Why does the US give Nuclear information/material to a country that won't even sighn the NPT?

 

[beachnut]

"beachnut - You are an engineer then you can provide evidence and facts they can not model the WTC! Prove it great one; can you?"

Maybe before you go and TRY to insult people for how they spell, you might want to make sure you have a VALID sentence structure!

But we can model the WTC failure. You can not model the CT idiot ideas.

I always have terrible spelling and can barely make a sentence make sence when I read it! But you sound like a CT broken record.

Try some facts next time.

 

[RemoveBush]

"defaultdotxbe - its a strategy, he annoys the piss out of us so we all ignore him, then he brags about how no one can address the evidence hes presenting and he proved we dont know anything about anything

and if we do continue to reply, he has the satisfaction of annoying the piss out of us"

Sorry, but my only strategy is to debate, but I gave up on this a long time ago because all you people want to do is attack and call people names.

 

[beachnut]

"beachnut - Funny how people in the government let Watergate out of the bag; and they never got beat up, killed, lost jobs.

No the Watergate guys who blew the story; They used facts! Facts backed up by facts, backed up by facts, verified and backed up with facts!

Facts; government people telling newspaper people factual stories and pointed to the evidence!

Nixon resigned cause there were facts proving he was covering it up.

Now loons need facts. Facts will make all loons experts."

Yeah and back then people had morals! Today, they cricify amputies and other people they don't agree with in ways that are shameful with distortions and lies.

Hardly any comparison!

Learn to use the quote function!

No one has a clue what you are talking about since you mix up you junk with our junk. It is easy to read post done with the quote.

The only shameful lies are coming from the CT truth movement! Total disrespect and zero facts.

Watergate is a good comparison to how a cover-up falls apart with FACTS.

Facts are what you and the truth movement are missing.

Facts are the things that make you right.

You are wrong because you have no facts.

Your post are a pain; you fail to use the quote function which by now only a dolt would ignore; and you could not be a dolt could you?

 

[beachnut]

Sorry, but my only strategy is to debate, but I gave up on this a long time ago because all you people want to do is attack and call people names.

Why debate it; you have proved it!

How loony are the loons? You have proved it! Very Loony!

Questions? (hint: loons do not use the quote button)

 

[RemoveBush]

"Indolent Wretch - There was no possible need for any conspirators to bring down the two towers."

Really? So you think that America's current situation would have gone on this long with evidence to evaluate and find "truths"?

"Indolent Wretch - The planes, the fires, they would have been perfectly adequate.

YOU HAVE NO MOTIVE FOR CD
YOU HAVE NO MOTIVE FOR CD
YOU HAVE NO MOTIVE FOR CD
YOU HAVE NO MOTIVE FOR CD
YOU HAVE NO MOTIVE FOR CD
YOU HAVE NO MOTIVE FOR CD"

Not according to many structural engineers.

"Comments from a Structural Engineer / Architect
• “It occurred to me that structural engineers and architects are
practitioners of static physics [like yourself] although we use
different terminology peculiar to our professions to elaborate
on our designs.
• “I am surprised how few of my colleagues have expressed
public disbelief at the official line which lurches from theory to
theory as the shortcomings of each became apparent. I guess
they have run out of ideas on Building 7.
• “You nailed the biggest problem when you focused on the
symmetry of collapse in comparison to the asymmetry of the
damage... Steel high rises are designed (and overdesigned) as
cantilever beams on end. There is so much redundant steel in
these buildings because they have to resist hurricane force
winds. Was there a hurricane in New York on Sept 11?
• “If steel framed structures designed by world class engineers
(who are still being commissioned to design high rises
elsewhere in the world) can collapse with so little provocation, I
should send my diploma back and take up fortune telling.”"
http://www.journalof911studies.com/JonesAnswersQuestionsWorldTradeCenter.pdf

As well as a STRUCTURAL ENGINEER stating outright that WTC7 WAS IMPLODED!
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003&q=9/11+mysteries

And this controlled demolition expert.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgoS...ch=wtc7 wtc controlled demolition 911 jowenko

 

[stateofgrace]

Remove bush

here is a question for you and I'm sure will have no problem answering it.

If all the calls were from the planes were impossible as many of you ct guys believe it to be how did they remotely control the same planes?

How come phone signals from the planes were impossible yet signals to the planes to remotely control them was possible?

I know it is a software thing, but maybe you could explain it simply for us hammers and spanners guys.

 

[beachnut]

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003&q=9%2F11+mysteries[/URL]

And this controlled demolition expert.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgoS...ch=wtc7 wtc controlled demolition 911 jowenko

The CT truth movement has .00067 percent of all engineers in the United States with them.

Shall we vote!

You lost by millions; try next time with facts.

BTW, bet half of your sources will not go on the recored today. (as in the last post)

BTW learn to use the quote button; are you too dumb to learn?

 

[apathoid]

Yes this guy knows how to MAINTAIN the aircraft, but does he know how to write EMBEDDED code? I have written embedded code for many types of devices: 186, Zilog, 8052, Motorola.

You and him are overlooking that a program CAN be put into the plane very easily! It would then wait for a SIGNAL to enact a special code that was designed to IGNORE all manual controls. Again, you people are thinking in a ONE DEMENSIONAL view rather than a multi-dementional view.

Does this guy say that the system cannot be reprogrammed????? NO! He states that if the pilots did anything that the system would give up control. However, if the SYSTEM was reprogrammed to ignore these attempts then the pilots would not be able to gain control.

Now start your ranthing and raving rather than thinking!

Christ on a popcicle, did you even read the damn essay? If you had, you might've seen where I mentioned that you can kill the entire electrical system and still fly the plane. How is your embedded software gonna work without power?

Also, I made it pretty clear that the 767 is not a fly-by-wire airplane, which means that the "software"(which is actually hardware generated data in a DITS format called ARINC 429) only has control of the airplane when autopilot is engaged.

You might also have read where I pointed out that the airplanes position determining system(called IRS) is only accurate to about a mile plus the initial poition entry error which could be as much as another mile.

How about you at least google some information about the 767 flight control system and avionics(or read my pdf) before trying to have a debate with someone who has forgotten more about these systems then you will ever know.

 

[JimBenArm]

Nah, this guy's got nothing. He's a poser, just trolling for attention. I say just ignore him, and let him carry on all he wants. He makes the best argument against his side just by allowing him to display his antisocial behavior where all can see it.

Anybody still believe anything this guy says?

 

[beachnut]

Sorry, but my only strategy is to debate, but I gave up on this a long time ago because all you people want to do is attack and call people names.

use the quote button; please

Your list of experts; have you studied each one and what they have to contribute to 9/11 CT?

Did you find the beam weapon no planer? Do you belive in the beam weapon?

Who on your list is a loon? You have a long list why not list each claim on CT of each expert and prove they are not loons.

That was a long list you presented; thus I assume you read each one of their ideas;

That must mean you believe in beam weapons and that planes did not hit the WTC.

Is this what you believe?

 

[babazaroni]

RemoveBush, I have taken the liberty to reformat one of your posts in a futile attempt to show you how much more readable and useful your posts would be if you only used the quote function. Notice that each quote has a link which allows anyone to look at the original context.

***

Fair enough on the last point, but I will defend those who are somewhat hostile, only by saying that you are probably the 4000th person that has come to these forums trying to convince them of the "inside job" theory, and brings in with him the same references that they have seen 4000 times. So excuse them for it out of their frustration, if nothing else.

Wait a minute! If you track back to when I first came in, they were already attacking. Here is my very first post:

Allow me to enlighten some of the people here who have a comprehension problem.

The fact that these guys prattle about treason trials and executions for ordinary folks who accept the various reports on 9/11 is something that bothers me. These nutters actually have no regard for any other form of human life except themselves and their immediate followers and flunkies. Yet that is precisely what they accuse the government of doing. A lot of this 9/11 conspiracy nonsense are projections of the nutters' own view of the world.

This person can clearly not read!!! The reply was not to "ordinary folks" it was to the US GOVERNMENT! I guess this is what's wrong with our country these days, as someone above posted, our schools are not teaching the basics. He/She cannot clearly read!

I can't help but just shake my head in disbelief when reading rants like these. The lack of education shown is just appalling; I mean, if they wanted to tout a conspiracy theory, they could at least come up with something that couldn't be so easily disproven.

Though this person indicates he/she is a scholar, I seriously doubt that! They fail to acknowledge that PHYSICS is something that cannot be denied. Physics is something that PROVES that the WTC's were brought down by something OTHER than a plane and fires. Here are some very simple questions for you scholar..... 1) What is the Free fall speed of an object dropped from the top of the WTC's? 2) What was the speed at which the buildings fell?? 3) Provide Scientific evidence by experimentation or imperical evidence that the core would have been completly destroyed and that the concrete would have vaporized in mid air like it did.

Since, as you say, it can be "easily disproven" then by all means enlighten us. After all, there are hundreds of HIGH level government officials and Military personnel that believe 9/11 was something other than what we were told. So are all these people "high on crack" as you imply?

I won't hold my breath on a civilized debate, as most of the comments have shown that you simply want to attack and call names of those people who do not follow in lockstep like you do with the official version.

I bet that most of you deniers believe that JFK was killed by a lone gunman??? Despite the fact that ballistics has shown that a bullet will enter the body with a small hole and exit in a larger one. JFK had a small hole in his forehead and the back of his head was blown out. Scientific proof, but you still deny this fact!"

So you see, I did not come in here attacking anyone! I did ask them to "debate", which only a few has done like you. But then I do believe, but I can't remember, that even you at one time made some comments that were also similar. Since I can't remember, I won't say this is fact but you and I believe the name is JoneyFive are now debating and have stopped it for the most part.

I will be honest with you. If I had the guilt in my heart that I knew who killed 3000 people, and that they were getting away with the crime, my job security would not prevent me from telling. Now if my families lives were threatened, than I might give it more consideration (keeping quiet).

In this case where we are dealing with the murder of 3000 people, I do not buy the idea that HUNDREDS are keeping quiet on it just to keep their jobs. Some of them may be single men or women with no family, so what would prevent them from telling?

Are you sure? Just look at the riddicule that is going on in here, and people have attacked HIGH LEVEL government officials for stepping up and making statements. Honestly, I really don't believe you would or if you did that you would ever get very far. People in our own government can't be heard without being vilified, and you expect a simple citizen to step up?

No, it would be equivelent to me, as a physician, on the night shift in a hospital ER, pronouncing someone dead, but not looking into the exact cause. This infact is what happens, as it is the job of the medical examiner and police to determine the cause of death or if foul play was involved.

Actually NIST is the ME! They are required to investigate ALL options. They are not the doctor as stated in your senerio. The doctor has already pronounced the man dead, and he is in on the ME slab. However, the ME just glanced over the body and determined that the man had an embolizm (spelling?) without even oppening him up! It is not the job of the Police to decide this, it is the ME's job. The job of the police is to find out who could have done something to the man if that is what the ME determines.

see my comments above. I do not buy that hundreds have remained silent, or even the top 20 or so, given that we are talking about the murder of 3000 people. But this, like all argument on this part of the deal, is just speculation.

Well, this is where I believe you to be wrong. Let me ask you this?? As a doctor you should have seen at least ONE gunshot wound right? If so, is the entry wound MUCH larger than the exit wound? My answer from ballistics is NO! So then let's just look at history..... JFK had a small little hole in his forehead and the back of his head was blown away! What does ballistics say about that?

So you see, there is a CLEAR example of something terrible actually happening in our past and we still to this day do not have anyone who has stepped forward.

See my comments earlier. Like I said, the job of scientists or engineers, I would think is to focus on the task given to them, and to keep within their mandate. Now if you are telling me that NIST itself has an SOP that specifically states they have to look into ALL POSSIBLE CAUSES of building collapse initiation wrt WTCs, then I'd like to see a copy of this SOP. Otherwise, if you look at their mandate, they have fulfilled it IMO.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this. This is very much like your doctor example above, and my ME example. In this case the ME stopped the procedure when he found that the heart stopped beating but did not determine why it stopped beating or whether or not a substance could have caused his heart to stop beating. Sure the ME determined the man had a heart attack, which is what NIST has done, but they did NOT find out if there was another substance involved.

I will try to get to the link. As for Jones, I have recollection of him stating that the NIST "most likely" cause of collapse is relatively sound, but that he simply wants the other possibility (CD) looked into. I could be wrong though.

He does state that a great deal of what NIST presents is correct, and so do I! However, just like the ME stating that the man died of a heart attack is correct also, just not the entire truth.

I am not a structural engineer or an expert on building collapse. I will plead complete ignorance on that question, but I am confident there are people on this board who could answer it.

Neither am I, but logic says that there is NO WAY that most of the WTC site was THERMALLY hot from fires that happened 85 stories above in a collapse that destroyed the entire building. Sure there would be some fires, no doubt, but not in the fashion we have seen.

Exactly. I guess my all CAPS of the word METAL and IRON and STEEL wasnt enough. I am not disputing witness testimony and some photographic evidence of molten METAL. My point is there is NO EVIDENCE of that metal being IRON or STEEL and could easily have been aluminum with alot of hydrocarbon debris in it, or could have been copper from the plumbing.

It was enough, but to say that there is no evidence is not true. At least not at the time, but now that is true. How convienent. Immagine if all our murder scense are handled in this way? What type of rule of law would we have? At the time of those pictures, they were past the recovery stage so there is NO REASON not to save samples of Anomolies for future study.

I am not a member of NIST, and all I have to work with is their mandate. To me, this was not a breech of their mandate. Perhaps a direct question posed to them asking why they did not analyse molten METAL at the scene might produce an answer.

I for one will not hold my breath on any answer! I would expect the run around.

Speculation unless you have scientific calculations that prove this assertion. NIST has stated that the kinetic energy as a result of the dynamic load of 18-30 storeys of building falling through several floors (the impact zone) would be of such a magnitude that the resistance offered by the remaining building below would be insignificant. Unless you have hard science to contradict this, then you are simply stating your opinion, an opinion of someone with good math skills, and really good electronic skills.

OK.... Then let me ask you this. If the floors are being crushed by upper floors as they collapse, which they were but would have stopped eventually before the ground, then why was there NO PART of the core still standing????? The CORE was the load bearing part of the building. It would not have been pulled down with the floors. Maybe when the steel was only 3" thick, but not as it reached 6". Your talking about a record spindle type action that is capable of pulling down the spindle as the records fall.

I think we are talikng a matter of "relativity" here. Yes, obviously there was "some" resistance, which is why the building did not collapse in "free fall" time, but somewhat close to it. There are numerous videos showing "free falling" debris falling at a much faster rate than the building collapse. I simply think (opinion, but backed up by NIST) that even that amount of resistance, was insignificant to the overwhelming force of the falling storeys above the impact zone.

Then let me ask you this.... Why do we need demolition companies??? Why not start fires on multiple floors of buildings and set off a few large exposives near the top and wait for the building to fall down on its self in a nice little pile? The reason is because once the collapse is initiated, they need to ensure they remove the resistance from the falling building.

Actually, a user named "Gravy" here on JREF has several photos shoing large pieces of concrete at GZ. As well, there is a large peice of multiple floors compressed, that he has a phot of as well.

The problem is that there would be MORE! Since the floors were made of concrete there should be more signs of the floors around. Since the floors are basically slapping one another, to describe it somehow, they are not being pounded in one small area. The pounding is, realtively, even. So I would expect that the top part to be reduced to powder more as it is being compressed more than the bottom. Here is an example.... When the city takes up sidewalks, they use a large machine that is like a huge weight slamming down on just one small peice of the sidwalk. Yet it takes multiple hits for just this tiny little piece to be broken, and even then there are still LARGE pieces visible. Why do they not just take and hit the concrete with the tool horizontal rather than vertical if this is going to break up the concrete into fine little pieces. I do understand that there are other, more complicated, aspects to the WTC collapse but a very similar principal.

Like I said, I want proof that the dust we saw was micronized concrete and not drywall, which is the more likely culpret given how little energy is required to turn it to dust c/w concrete.

I have YEARS worth of information, so it is going to take some time to find this inforamtion. I have some other work to do today, but later I will start my search through what I have and look for it.

I am newer to the scene, so I have less chronic posting fatigue syndrome than these guys. That said, post like you have posted to me, and you may find there are more here who will debate you, many better than me at it.

Again... It is a TWO WAY STREET, and if they want to debate and put away all those labels "kooks", "loonies", "conspiracy theorists", etc. then that is what I am here for. I don't go calling them "kooks" because they believe what they do! If they wish to be civilized, as you can see by our discussions I can be too when it is returned in kind. I will return in kind what I recieve. Remember, "treat others as you would want to be treated". If they desire to keep up with the name calling rather than debating, then I too can play that game.

Thanks for the respectful debate.

ciao