How long could a head be kept alive

[jens]

Would this be possible? What would be the limiting factor?

I think, in all probability, if this could be made to work, it would not be long before a blood clot or vein damage caused problems...

So many of the body's functions are controlled by chemical feedback loops between the organs and the brain. While it would be possible to provide the head with nutrient-rich, oxygenated blood, it would be impossible to provide for all of the necessary hormones and other chemicals. For example, it would be possible to add an insulin infusion to the equation to allow for absorption of glucose by the cells, and currently, there are not viable options for most of the chemicals necessary for life.

Another thing I thought of is that, while many components of blood can be administered from donor blood, white blood cells can not. No matter how sterile the system, white blood cells are still necessary for the breakdown of dead cells and such.

Finally, while there are dialysis machines and heart-lung machines, I don't believe that there is a liver machine in existence.

As for the transplanted heads, I have a hard time believing that this is possible, since it would require the spinal cord to be completely severed and then re-attached to a new body.........in my experience, severed spinal cords (particularly at the neck level) are incompatible with life.

This has been interesting to think about

 

[Dogdoctor]

I doubt we could keep a brain alive for long with current technology. Forgeting that , an aspect that you may not know is that some of the nerves that control the larynx originate in the chest so will be cut when the head is removed rendering the head unable to speak under any circumstances.

 

[Dave1001]

I doubt we could keep a brain alive for long with current technology. Forgeting that , an aspect that you may not know is that some of the nerves that control the larynx originate in the chest so will be cut when the head is removed rendering the head unable to speak under any circumstances.

that doesn't preclude other forms of communication, such as blinking.

 

[DRBUZZ0]

So many of the body's functions are controlled by chemical feedback loops between the organs and the brain. While it would be possible to provide the head with nutrient-rich, oxygenated blood, it would be impossible to provide for all of the necessary hormones and other chemicals. For example, it would be possible to add an insulin infusion to the equation to allow for absorption of glucose by the cells, and currently, there are not viable options for most of the chemicals necessary for life.

Another thing I thought of is that, while many components of blood can be administered from donor blood, white blood cells can not. No matter how sterile the system, white blood cells are still necessary for the breakdown of dead cells and such.

Finally, while there are dialysis machines and heart-lung machines, I don't believe that there is a liver machine in existence.

As for the transplanted heads, I have a hard time believing that this is possible, since it would require the spinal cord to be completely severed and then re-attached to a new body.........in my experience, severed spinal cords (particularly at the neck level) are incompatible with life.

This has been interesting to think about

There have been developments of artificial liver systems http://www.med.umich.edu/opm/newspage/2002/artificalliver.htm

Not sure what could be done about white blood cells though. Possibly try to keep some of the patient's bone marrow around in the loop?

And as for talking...yes that would be hard. I suppose you could try to take a good chunk of the chest area and throat muscles with you.

Otherwise, there are other possibilities, for example it is possible to train yourself to control your brain waves to a degree to control things. Otherwise, perhaps by nerve impulses from the severed spint

 

[Dogdoctor]

There have been developments of artificial liver systems http://www.med.umich.edu/opm/newspage/2002/artificalliver.htm

Not sure what could be done about white blood cells though. Possibly try to keep some of the patient's bone marrow around in the loop?

And as for talking...yes that would be hard. I suppose you could try to take a good chunk of the chest area and throat muscles with you.

Otherwise, there are other possibilities, for example it is possible to train yourself to control your brain waves to a degree to control things. Otherwise, perhaps by nerve impulses from the severed spint

If I recall correctly there are devices which are used with imobilized individuals that sense eye position in relation to a computer screen which allows communication via eye movements

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

You probably shouldn't have brought this up, because I've heard some really gruesome stories from the Terror (part of the history of the French Revolution) in which the severed head was held up to the crowd after guillotining and remained apparently aware of what it was seeing. And it's apparently more than just a couple of seconds, FYI. Neat, huh?

ETA: it was clear that the head remained aware because of the changing expressions on the face.

Right. Ever stand up too fast and blackout briefly?

The brain loses consciousness instantly when it has no blood supply because it needs constant glucose and O2 to function. It is my understanding it is not physiologically possible for a severed head to remain conscious, even for a few seconds and this claim is a myth. It is possible seizure activity or muscle activity might continue after a head is severed and this was interpreted as conscious behavior.

If you have more than "I heard" for this claim I'd be interested.

 

[Dave1001]

Right. Ever stand up too fast and blackout briefly?

The brain loses consciousness instantly when it has no blood supply because it needs constant glucose and O2 to function. It is my understanding it is not physiologically possible for a severed head to remain conscious, even for a few seconds and this claim is a myth. It is possible seizure activity or muscle activity might continue after a head is severed and this was interpreted as conscious behavior.

If you have more than "I heard" for this claim I'd be interested.

Well apparently with today's technology they could keep that head alive at least a week if they wanted to.

 

[Dogdoctor]

Well apparently with today's technology they could keep that head alive at least a week if they wanted to.

I think that is a week with transplanting it to another body.

 

[Iamme]

You mean as in decapitation with a sword?

I expect the massive drop in blood pressure causes unconsciousness pretty well instantly.
Still it is a nasty thought. Just thinking it even while still beshouldered is bad enough.

Well, in my younger fishing days, I used to cut the heads of fish and watch them still try to breathe.

Just because there is a blood pressure drop, does that necessarily mean that the cells in the brain INSTANTLY die?

 

[Iamme]

You probably shouldn't have brought this up, because I've heard some really gruesome stories from the Terror (part of the history of the French Revolution) in which the severed head was held up to the crowd after guillotining and remained apparently aware of what it was seeing. And it's apparently more than just a couple of seconds, FYI. Neat, huh?

ETA: it was clear that the head remained aware because of the changing expressions on the face.

I wonder if there is any website documentation on stories like this.

I feel like I've sort of derailed the OP topic sort of...but this is fun, isn't it?" It's one of those gruesome curiosity things most of us have in us that comes out, that causes us to be ambulance chasers, rubberneckers, etc.

 

[Iamme]

C. If you were to film an execution, it's unlikely that you could have arrangements made to get some closeups of the head as it comes off. Again...too grusome.

Back in the early 70's I used to take in at least one movie per weekend at the theaters. One movie I saw (I believe it was the one in 3-d where you have to wear the glases, and watch like bats flying right at you..where they showed in slow motion, someone's head being lopped off (I think it was a Frankenstein movie) with a lopping shears. They showed the neck first getting squeezed way in, before it reached that critical stage where it suddenly got lopped. That was pretty neat. It's possible it may have been in the Young Frankenstein movie, but I can't remember for sure.

 

[Iamme]

D. Beheadings aren't done much anymore. There could be some al queda or taliban videos which would fit the bill, but why would you want to see that? or care?

Are you kidding me? People love to watchstuff like this. People were given such links to go to, to watch the beheadings of those kidnapped journalists, and whoever, that got beheaded and got filmed.

 

[Iamme]

I doubt we could keep a brain alive for long with current technology. Forgeting that , an aspect that you may not know is that some of the nerves that control the larynx originate in the chest so will be cut when the head is removed rendering the head unable to speak under any circumstances.

Back on subject:
IF this were to be able to be done, some day...how many would want their heads mounted on some other body? I think I would gag. And that would be if I didn't faint first. It seems like this could cause you to go into shock. Then all their work in saving your head would be for naught.

 

[Iamme]

Right. Ever stand up too fast and blackout briefly?

The brain loses consciousness instantly when it has no blood supply because it needs constant glucose and O2 to function. It is my understanding it is not physiologically possible for a severed head to remain conscious, even for a few seconds and this claim is a myth. It is possible seizure activity or muscle activity might continue after a head is severed and this was interpreted as conscious behavior.

If you have more than "I heard" for this claim I'd be interested.

A very worthy point to consider. So now I presume that fish don't operate on O2 or glucose then.

 

[Dogdoctor]

Well, in my younger fishing days, I used to cut the heads of fish and watch them still try to breathe.

Just because there is a blood pressure drop, does that necessarily mean that the cells in the brain INSTANTLY die?

There are many reflexive movements that can occur without the brain in control. The more primitive the species the more activity without the brain.

 

[DRBUZZ0]

A very worthy point to consider. So now I presume that fish don't operate on O2 or glucose then.

More likely it's a reflex that does not depend on any higher function.


I've seen information on the "monkey experiments" and it seems quite plausible that a head could be kept alive for some time on a different body. The issues would be that there would be paralysis from the neck down, due to the inability to reconnect the spinal cord.

Possibly a stem cell therapy could be used to repair the spinal cord. It has been theorized that this could be done in the near future, but having it completely severed is a very big injury. Seems like that would be, at best, very difficult, within the forseeable time period.

The other issue would be rejection by the imune system. This can be helped with drugs, but these have side effects and are imperfect, which why transplant patients often have a shorter life expectancy than those with their own organs.


Well.... here's an interesting hypothetical situation. Two identical twins get in a traumatic accident. One is alive, but has very bad body trauma and the doctors are doubtful he could be saved, due to multiple organ failure and a broken spinal cord. The other suffered only major trauma to the head, and is brain dead, but kept alive artificially.

A doctor proposes "We could transplant your head onto your brother's body. You would be paralyzed, but recent experiments using marrow-derived stem cells have shown promise in repairing spinal injuries. We believe that there is great hope of regaining movement and feeling in the future and there are no rejection issues because you have the same genetics. You wana swap heads?"

 

[Dogdoctor]

Back on subject:
IF this were to be able to be done, some day...how many would want their heads mounted on some other body? I think I would gag. And that would be if I didn't faint first. It seems like this could cause you to go into shock. Then all their work in saving your head would be for naught.

A brain removed from a body and kept alive by machines is at the mercy of the machines and unless the machines are set to allow low blood pressure there will be no shock as far as the physiological state goes though the brain may be revolted by discovering that it is missing it's body.

 

[JPK]

Good afternoon.

This has been done several times. Plenty video documentation. Nothing new here. In 1962 Dr. Bill Cortner, kept his wifes head alive in a roasting pan full of brain juice. Again in 1972 Dr. Maxwell Kirshner had his head transpanted onto Jack Moss's body.

I can produce several other examples if required.
Nothing to see here. Move along.
JPK

 

[Big Les]

The recent movie "Severance" (great fun if you're a horror fan) features one character speculating on the "how long could a head stay conscious" thing, and inevitably finding out first hand later on... I agree entirely with the point about blood pressure; think how quickly you lose sensibility and then consciousness when you pass out or faint. Now imagine that happening much, much quicker.

You wouldn't feel it, and you wouldn't be aware of it. The Straight Dope guys agree:

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_221a.html

You've been watching too many cheap horror movies--although to be frank about it, this kind of thing isn't confined to the silver screen. My somewhat credulous mother used to tell us a story about a Catholic martyr who, after decapitation, picked up his head and kissed it. Not being dummies, we pointed to out to her that there were practical problems involved in a headless body kissing anything. Anyway, the fatal blow in a beheading induces immediate unconsciousness, even though the brain may not actually expire for several minutes. Even if the head were somehow miraculously reattached to the body, a phenomenon known as "retrograde amnesia," common in accident victims, would most likely prevent the subject from remembering anything about the event.

and well and truly finished off here: http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_262.html
With an honourable mention on Wikipedia.

And now, back to your actual topic!

 

[Dr. Imago]

D. Beheadings aren't done much anymore. There could be some al queda or taliban videos which would fit the bill, but why would you want to see that? or care?

As someone who made the mistake of watching one of the beheadings online, trust me that you do not want to see that. I suffered what could be best described as PTSD for a few months after witnessing that. Not only do I not want to remember what the severed head did, I don't want to remember anything about watching that video.

As far as the hypothetical nature of maintaing a severed head, I think this would be techniccally feasible if a few criteria were met.

(1) You would have to bypass the carotid and jugular venous returns sequentially. Having seen many carotid endarterectomies performed where the internal carotid artery is cross-clamped and subsequently bypassed to the patients own circulation via the external jugular (because of lack of sufficient contralateral patency to perfuse the brain), this would be technically feasible.

(2) You cannot discount the aerodigestive tract in maintaining normal function of the head. Not only does this serve to a small extent in cooling, it also serves to keep the sinuses clear of secretions, which are a nidus for infection. In long-term ventilated patients, where the sinuses are bypassed by an endotracheal tube, this can be problematic.

(3) The function of the lymphatic system would have to be maintained. Even though you have lymph nodes in your neck, these all eventually drain through the thoracic duct into the central circulation. Disruption of this system would lead to massive lymphedema of the head, unless some mechanism was instituted to also bypass the normal evacuation of this system.

(4) There would have to be some sort of reticuloendothelial system in place that would help in the normal day-to-day regulation and turn-over of dead cells and proteins. While the cervical spine, if left mostly intact, could contribute to this, the bulk of these cells - namely macrophages - come from the hematopoetic system located in the thoracic and lumbar spine, large bones (such as the femur), the liver, the spleen (which serves as a reservoir), and the bony rib cage. Developing an "artificial" system for this - barring the potential for infection - would be difficult, and wrought with rejection issues if some surrogate was found.

(5) I'm sure there are other things I can't think of right now that would preclude a longterm survival of such a scenario.

The point is, the animal/mammal body is an entire system that has evolved over millions and millions of years. Isolating a single part would be complicated, even given the best of medical science. And, it certainly would be expensive. If you consider that even just a stay - just for the bed - in an ICU averages about $4000 a day... then you've got to add-in the bypass equipment, the changing of fluids, etc., etc. Not to mention that we are not at the state where we can accurately and reliably synthesize the human immune system in vitro.

The best bet would be to transplant the head onto another body, as others have said, and it would have to be a one - like in the identical twin - where major histocompatibility is assured, otherwise you'd be equally fraught with rejection issues. And, remember, even in twins there are different environmental exposures to antigens and development of diseases.

Not an easy task, anyway you slice it...

-Dr. Imago